trying to finish up
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I like the reforumulation below a lot, Michael!
I don't however like this very much "We believe that citizens need open and free access to civic information and data, particularly in an information economy"... I think using the terminology of the "Information Society" is much more powerful in that one can draw link directly into the various clauses and proclamations (in which Canada was a lead actor) from the World Summit on the Information Society... (In fact it might not be a bad idea to have a quote somewhere from there... I'm still in recovery mode from a major travel excursion or I would dig something out, but Robert Guerra or Bill McIver both of whom many (most?) of you know and who (both) could/should be enlisted in this enterprise would probably have something at their finger tips... MG -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael Lenczner Sent: March 26, 2006 8:27 PM To: civicaccess discuss Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] trying to finish up "Citizens for Open Access to Civic Information and Data (COACID) is being formed out of a belief that open civic information and data are necessary for being an engaged citizen in an "information society". We want to encourage all levels of government to make civic information and data freely accessible in open formats to citizens." > > Patrick > > Daniel Haran wrote: > > I've put up a mock up of the front page as I would see it. > > http://www.civicaccess.ca/wiki/FrontPageMockup > > > > Eventually, a front page could have just the first paragraph, with > > news (+RSS feed) and *ways for people to get involved*. That last > > point is probably the most important thing from my perspective. What > > do we want this site to accomplish? A lot of decisions flow very > > easily once that's clear. > > > > Oh, and I made up a campaign. It's a devious ploy to get people > > thinking about a census data campaign. (I think it's a great idea). > > > > Disclaimers: > > 1- It's ugly. I never pretended to be a designer :) > > 2- The information is mostly based on our About page, but I've > > changed important parts (e.g. removing the non-commercial objective. > > I think data should be free, and I think that was the consensus on > > the list so > > far) > > 3- I didn't translate the page, as I think these should be separate > > English/French pages as mentioned earlier. I can translate if/once it > > has consensus. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Daniel. > > > > On 3/26/06, Michael Lenczner <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> I'm worried that it's going to alienate lots of potential quebec > >> participants. Dèja le plupart de la site est en Anglais ansi que > >> les titres des pages. Aussi, le mailing list ca se passe presque > >> seulment en Anglais. Je ne pense pas que on a besoin de leur > >> donner un autre raison à croire que le site n'est pas crèer pour > >> eux. > >> > >> also - instead of COACID can we use Civic Access / Accès Civique? > >> Both for the title and in the text? I changed the corresponding > >> text in the wiki (on the front page). > >> > >> In general, we probably should never use COACID or the french > >> version, CALIDC. Just CivicAccess.ca or AccesCivique.ca > >> > >> > >> On 3/26/06, Patrick Dinnen <[hidden email]> wrote: > >>> On the maple leaf, I'm not a flag waving sort myself either. But > >>> the thinking here was that without some indicator it's not at all > >>> apparent that the group/site relates to Canadian data > >>> specifically. The leaf seemed like a super quick and clear way of > >>> communicating that visually. > >>> > >>> Personally I'm much more bothered by the use of the term 'Splash > >>> page' than I am about using the flag ;-) But whatever people > >>> think. > >>> > >>> Patrick > >>> > >>> Michael Lenczner wrote: > >>>> looks good. > >>>> > >>>> I would skip the maple leave, though. seems . . . gratuitous, to > >>>> a quebecer at least. and it kinda looks like we might be > >>>> "official", gov't funded or something. > >>>> > >>>> On 3/26/06, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote: > >>>>> :-) > >>>>> > >>>>> someday someone will have to explain to be the politics of the > >>>>> s word! > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Patrick Dinnen wrote: > >>>>> I agree that an initial page to explain a little about what the > >>>>> site/a wiki is would be helpful (lets say landing page, rather > >>>>> than using the S word with it's information-free connotations). > >>>>> Here's a 10 minute design on how that might look: > >>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=118104671&size=o > >>>>> > >>>>> Thoughts? > >>>>> > >>>>> Patrick > >>>>> > >>>>> Michael Lenczner wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> I know tracey just added some more sections to the site. > >>>>> > >>>>> on my side: > >>>>> > >>>>> 1) i think we should keep a splash page before the wiki. that > >>>>> way we can at some point set up another cms if we want to. > >>>>> > >>>>> if we don't keep a splash page then people will link to > >>>>> http://www.civicaccess.ca to go to the wiki. To put a blog in > >>>>> before that a year later would mean breaking everyone's links to > >>>>> the wiki. > >>>>> > >>>>> so we should prevent http://www.civicaccess.ca from forwarding > >>>>> automatically to the wiki. > >>>>> > >>>>> and 2) we should keep a splash page because many of the people > >>>>> who we want to become participants of civicaccess have never > >>>>> seen a wiki before and will be kinda shocked with how > >>>>> unprofessional it seems. especially because it seems that we're > >>>>> going to have to "go live" before we get a nicely organized wiki > >>>>> with lots of content. > >>>>> > >>>>> Steph - can you put a back a temporary splash page? and maybe > >>>>> you or patrick or someone else can do a lightly designed splash > >>>>> page explain civicaccess in french + english (link to suggested > >>>>> text below) with a link to the wiki? > >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.civicaccess.ca/wiki/Launch/SplashPage (suggested > >>>>> text) > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > >>>>> [hidden email] > >>>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civic > >>>>> access.ca > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > >>>>> [hidden email] > >>>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civic > >>>>> access.ca > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > >>>>> [hidden email] > >>>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civic > >>>>> access.ca > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > >>>> [hidden email] > >>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civica > >>>> ccess.ca > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > >>> [hidden email] > >>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicac > >>> cess.ca > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list [hidden email] > >> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list [hidden email] > > http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca > > > > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list [hidden email] > http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca > _______________________________________________ CivicAccess-discuss mailing list [hidden email] http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca |
Re: trying to finish up
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In reply to this post by Daniel Haran
Daniel Haran wrote: On 3/26/06, Cory Horner [hidden email] wrote: |
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In reply to this post by Patrick Dinnen
Hi Patrick,
Do you think you could make a simple logo with the word CivicAccess and a stylized map of Canada ? I could try something if you don't have time but you could do something better I guess. Can you send me the source of the splash page also ? Stef Patrick Dinnen wrote: I really like Daniel's proposed front page text. I like the clear 'manifesto' and call to action sections. I still feel it would be useful to have a non-wiki front page for the site (not sure if this was your thought or not Daniel?). We're told not to judge books by their covers', but we still do it all the time. I wouldn't want people to be scared off by the wiki-look of the site before they get an idea what it's about. Regarding the maple leaf: I agree, inclusivity is crucial, but I'm really not interested in figuring out how to navigate subtle intra-national politics of symbolism. Just as long as the first page makes it clear that this is a Canadian thing, how it's done is unimportant to me. Whatever people think works best works with me. Patrick Daniel Haran wrote:I've put up a mock up of the front page as I would see it. http://www.civicaccess.ca/wiki/FrontPageMockup Eventually, a front page could have just the first paragraph, with news (+RSS feed) and *ways for people to get involved*. That last point is probably the most important thing from my perspective. What do we want this site to accomplish? A lot of decisions flow very easily once that's clear. Oh, and I made up a campaign. It's a devious ploy to get people thinking about a census data campaign. (I think it's a great idea). Disclaimers: 1- It's ugly. I never pretended to be a designer :) 2- The information is mostly based on our About page, but I've changed important parts (e.g. removing the non-commercial objective. I think data should be free, and I think that was the consensus on the list so far) 3- I didn't translate the page, as I think these should be separate English/French pages as mentioned earlier. I can translate if/once it has consensus. Cheers, Daniel. On 3/26/06, Michael Lenczner [hidden email] wrote:I'm worried that it's going to alienate lots of potential quebec participants. Dèja le plupart de la site est en Anglais ansi que les titres des pages. Aussi, le mailing list ca se passe presque seulment en Anglais. Je ne pense pas que on a besoin de leur donner un autre raison à croire que le site n'est pas crèer pour eux. also - instead of COACID can we use Civic Access / Accès Civique? Both for the title and in the text? I changed the corresponding text in the wiki (on the front page). In general, we probably should never use COACID or the french version, CALIDC. Just CivicAccess.ca or AccesCivique.ca On 3/26/06, Patrick Dinnen [hidden email] wrote: |
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In reply to this post by Tracey P. Lauriault-2
Here is want I'll try to do :
- I asked Patrick to do something like the logo he did but with a stylized map of canada and "CivicAccess" (and AccèsCivique for french). I'll add a splash page with this and the content of this page : http://www.civicaccess.ca/wiki/FrontPageMockup (+ translation). This shouldn't be too hard. - I asked Robin if we could modify the template easily to add a small navigation menu (like what they add on their FACIL website. A navigation menu would help to sort the content and could solve a part of the content organization problem we have. - The language issue really p*** me off. I'm french (not french canadien/quebecer) so my opinion may not be representative : to me many french canadians might be able to understand that we don't have a lot of resources to translate all the content and when we want to bring people from all over the country, english is the language. We try to put some content in french as we can. Then we should put to much emphasis on french. For example, the title of the page (which is also the URL) must remain in english only (and simple). - Language auto-detection : The wiki software has this ability. When a french-configured browser arrives on the website, the wiki provides the webpage "Page D'Accueil (http://www.civicaccess.ca/wiki/PageD%27Accueil) which is for the moment forwarded to the common frontpage. We could remove that forward and copy the french version to the "Page d'accueil" page. In fact it's already done but I leave the french version in the FrontPage for the moment. Anything else ? |
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Stephane Guidoin wrote:
> Here is want I'll try to do : > > - I asked Patrick to do something like the logo he did but with a stylized map of canada and "CivicAccess" (and AccèsCivique for french). I'll add a splash page with this and the content of this page : http://www.civicaccess.ca/wiki/FrontPageMockup (+ translation). This shouldn't be too hard. > nice! > - I asked Robin if we could modify the template easily to add a small navigation menu (like what they add on their FACIL website. A navigation menu would help to sort the content and could solve a part of the content organization problem we have. > Great! I am working on refining some of what i put up there, and will think more carefully about mutually exclusive categories. > - The language issue really p*** me off. I'm french (not french canadien/quebecer) so my opinion may not be representative : to me many french canadians might be able to understand that we don't have a lot of resources to translate all the content and when we want to bring people from all over the country, english is the language. We try to put some content in french as we can. Then we should put to much emphasis on french. For example, the title of the page (which is also the URL) must remain in english only (and simple). > ce que tu dis est plus ou moin vrai, pour moi, je commence a travailler de plus en plus en francais, et j'aimerais en faire plus, donc le plus possible ce serait bien de faire le mieux que l'on peu en sachant que l'on ne peu pas tous faire. Par example, a ottawa on ne peu pas travailler uniquement en englais, je vois hull de chez moi car il n'y a que une petite riviere qui nous separe! Ah! c'est un fait culturel et historique. Les gens comprendront mais seulement s'ils voient que nous faisont un vrai efforts! Et je dirais qu'a date on fais 'une pas mal bonne job' ! > - Language auto-detection : The wiki software has this ability. When a french-configured browser arrives on the website, the wiki provides the webpage "Page D'Accueil (http://www.civicaccess.ca/wiki/PageD%27Accueil) which is for the moment forwarded to the common frontpage. We could remove that forward and copy the french version to the "Page d'accueil" page. In fact it's already done but I leave the french version in the FrontPage for the moment. > nice! pourrais-tu un jour m'induquer comment faire la figuration un jour! et pourquoi que mes clef 'short cut' pour les accents ne fonctionne pas dans le wiki? > Anything else ? > This is great! > > > > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > [hidden email] > http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca > > > |
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In reply to this post by Stephane Guidoin
On 3/26/06, Stephane Guidoin <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Here is want I'll try to do : > - I asked Robin if we could modify the template easily to add a small navigation menu (like what they add on their FACIL website. A navigation menu would help to sort the content and could solve a part of the content organization problem we have. Should be doable, I'll try and find the time tomorrow to take a better look at this. > - The language issue really p*** me off. I'm french (not french canadien/quebecer) so my opinion may not be representative : to me many french canadians might be able to understand that we don't have a lot of resources to translate all the content and when we want to bring people from all over the country, english is the language. We try to put some content in french as we can. Then we should put to much emphasis on french. For example, the title of the page (which is also the URL) must remain in english only (and simple). First, we have to make a disctinction between the wiki and website. Generally, I prefer english only URLs and the content in whatever language the browser/user requests. For the wiki though, using moinmoin, we don't really have a choice to distinguish the language of the page, mostly because of the nature of wiki words. > - Language auto-detection : The wiki software has this ability. When a french-configured browser arrives on the website, the wiki provides the webpage "Page D'Accueil (http://www.civicaccess.ca/wiki/PageD%27Accueil) which is for the moment forwarded to the common frontpage. We could remove that forward and copy the french version to the "Page d'accueil" page. In fact it's already done but I leave the french version in the FrontPage for the moment. Yes, with moinmoin, you specify the language of each page at the top. Then you have another page (a dictionary) enumerating all the pages and their language equivalents. I think, with a little prodding, we can keep both official languages mostly up to date. At the very least, we need the infrastructure now to support it. If we can't keep up with the content in two languages down the road, we can revise our position then or double our efforts. One last note about the wiki / website distinction. If, like FACIL, we pick a wiki as a tool to edit our website collectively, we will get a website in the end, and not something that looks or smells like a wiki. I'm not saying we have to use a wiki for our website, far from it. Whatever tool we pick, it should let more then one person edit the content, and wikis are pretty good at that, regardless of the content. -- Robin 'oqp' Millette : http://rym.waglo.com/ Président de FACIL : http://facil.qc.ca/ |
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In reply to this post by Stephane Guidoin
I agree, a map image is a great solution, visually indicated Candianess
without being divisive. I'll try to put something together today and email it to you Stephane. Patrick Stephane Guidoin wrote: > Hi Patrick, > > Do you think you could make a simple logo with the word CivicAccess and > a stylized map of Canada ? I could try something if you don't have time > but you could do something better I guess. > > Can you send me the source of the splash page also ? > > Stef > > Patrick Dinnen wrote: >> I really like Daniel's proposed front page text. I like the clear >> 'manifesto' and call to action sections. >> >> I still feel it would be useful to have a non-wiki front page for the >> site (not sure if this was your thought or not Daniel?). We're told >> not to judge books by their covers', but we still do it all the time. >> I wouldn't want people to be scared off by the wiki-look of the site >> before they get an idea what it's about. >> >> Regarding the maple leaf: I agree, inclusivity is crucial, but I'm >> really not interested in figuring out how to navigate subtle >> intra-national politics of symbolism. Just as long as the first page >> makes it clear that this is a Canadian thing, how it's done is >> unimportant to me. Whatever people think works best works with me. >> >> Patrick >> >> Daniel Haran wrote: >> >>> I've put up a mock up of the front page as I would see it. >>> http://www.civicaccess.ca/wiki/FrontPageMockup >>> >>> Eventually, a front page could have just the first paragraph, with >>> news (+RSS feed) and *ways for people to get involved*. That last >>> point is probably the most important thing from my perspective. What >>> do we want this site to accomplish? A lot of decisions flow very >>> easily once that's clear. >>> >>> Oh, and I made up a campaign. It's a devious ploy to get people >>> thinking about a census data campaign. (I think it's a great idea). >>> >>> Disclaimers: >>> 1- It's ugly. I never pretended to be a designer :) >>> 2- The information is mostly based on our About page, but I've changed >>> important parts (e.g. removing the non-commercial objective. I think >>> data should be free, and I think that was the consensus on the list so >>> far) >>> 3- I didn't translate the page, as I think these should be separate >>> English/French pages as mentioned earlier. I can translate if/once it >>> has consensus. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Daniel. >>> >>> On 3/26/06, Michael Lenczner <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>>> I'm worried that it's going to alienate lots of potential quebec >>>> participants. Dèja le plupart de la site est en Anglais ansi que les >>>> titres des pages. Aussi, le mailing list ca se passe presque seulment >>>> en Anglais. Je ne pense pas que on a besoin de leur donner un autre >>>> raison à croire que le site n'est pas crèer pour eux. >>>> >>>> also - instead of COACID can we use Civic Access / Accès Civique? >>>> Both for the title and in the text? I changed the corresponding text >>>> in the wiki (on the front page). >>>> >>>> In general, we probably should never use COACID or the french version, >>>> CALIDC. Just CivicAccess.ca or AccesCivique.ca >>>> >>>> >>>> On 3/26/06, Patrick Dinnen <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On the maple leaf, I'm not a flag waving sort myself either. But the >>>>> thinking here was that without some indicator it's not at all apparent >>>>> that the group/site relates to Canadian data specifically. The leaf >>>>> seemed like a super quick and clear way of communicating that >>>>> visually. >>>>> >>>>> Personally I'm much more bothered by the use of the term 'Splash page' >>>>> than I am about using the flag ;-) But whatever people think. >>>>> >>>>> Patrick >>>>> >>>>> Michael Lenczner wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> looks good. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would skip the maple leave, though. seems . . . gratuitous, to a >>>>>> quebecer at least. and it kinda looks like we might be "official", >>>>>> gov't funded or something. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/26/06, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> :-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> someday someone will have to explain to be the politics of the s >>>>>>> word! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Patrick Dinnen wrote: >>>>>>> I agree that an initial page to explain a little about what the >>>>>>> site/a >>>>>>> wiki is would be helpful (lets say landing page, rather than >>>>>>> using the S >>>>>>> word with it's information-free connotations). Here's a 10 minute >>>>>>> design >>>>>>> on how that might look: >>>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=118104671&size=o >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thoughts? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Patrick >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Michael Lenczner wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I know tracey just added some more sections to the site. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> on my side: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1) i think we should keep a splash page before the wiki. that way we >>>>>>> can at some point set up another cms if we want to. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> if we don't keep a splash page then people will link to >>>>>>> http://www.civicaccess.ca to go to the wiki. To put a blog in before >>>>>>> that a year later would mean breaking everyone's links to the wiki. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> so we should prevent http://www.civicaccess.ca from forwarding >>>>>>> automatically to the wiki. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> and 2) we should keep a splash page because many of the people >>>>>>> who we >>>>>>> want to become participants of civicaccess have never seen a wiki >>>>>>> before and will be kinda shocked with how unprofessional it seems. >>>>>>> especially because it seems that we're going to have to "go live" >>>>>>> before we get a nicely organized wiki with lots of content. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Steph - can you put a back a temporary splash page? and maybe you or >>>>>>> patrick or someone else can do a lightly designed splash page >>>>>>> explain >>>>>>> civicaccess in french + english (link to suggested text below) >>>>>>> with a >>>>>>> link to the wiki? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.civicaccess.ca/wiki/Launch/SplashPage (suggested >>>>>>> text) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca >>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca >> >> > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > [hidden email] > http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca |
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In reply to this post by Michael Lenczner
Ad mare usque mare (usque mare)...
MG -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Patrick Dinnen Sent: March 27, 2006 2:42 PM To: civicaccess discuss Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] trying to finish up I agree, a map image is a great solution, visually indicated Candianess without being divisive. I'll try to put something together today and email it to you Stephane. Patrick Stephane Guidoin wrote: > Hi Patrick, > > Do you think you could make a simple logo with the word CivicAccess > and > a stylized map of Canada ? I could try something if you don't have time > but you could do something better I guess. > > Can you send me the source of the splash page also ? > > Stef > > Patrick Dinnen wrote: >> I really like Daniel's proposed front page text. I like the clear >> 'manifesto' and call to action sections. >> >> I still feel it would be useful to have a non-wiki front page for the >> site (not sure if this was your thought or not Daniel?). We're told >> not to judge books by their covers', but we still do it all the time. >> I wouldn't want people to be scared off by the wiki-look of the site >> before they get an idea what it's about. >> >> Regarding the maple leaf: I agree, inclusivity is crucial, but I'm >> really not interested in figuring out how to navigate subtle >> intra-national politics of symbolism. Just as long as the first page >> makes it clear that this is a Canadian thing, how it's done is >> unimportant to me. Whatever people think works best works with me. >> >> Patrick >> >> Daniel Haran wrote: >> >>> I've put up a mock up of the front page as I would see it. >>> http://www.civicaccess.ca/wiki/FrontPageMockup >>> >>> Eventually, a front page could have just the first paragraph, with >>> news (+RSS feed) and *ways for people to get involved*. That last >>> point is probably the most important thing from my perspective. What >>> do we want this site to accomplish? A lot of decisions flow very >>> easily once that's clear. >>> >>> Oh, and I made up a campaign. It's a devious ploy to get people >>> thinking about a census data campaign. (I think it's a great idea). >>> >>> Disclaimers: >>> 1- It's ugly. I never pretended to be a designer :) >>> 2- The information is mostly based on our About page, but I've >>> changed important parts (e.g. removing the non-commercial objective. >>> I think data should be free, and I think that was the consensus on >>> the list so >>> far) >>> 3- I didn't translate the page, as I think these should be separate >>> English/French pages as mentioned earlier. I can translate if/once it >>> has consensus. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Daniel. >>> >>> On 3/26/06, Michael Lenczner <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>>> I'm worried that it's going to alienate lots of potential quebec >>>> participants. Dèja le plupart de la site est en Anglais ansi que >>>> les titres des pages. Aussi, le mailing list ca se passe presque >>>> seulment en Anglais. Je ne pense pas que on a besoin de leur >>>> donner un autre raison à croire que le site n'est pas crèer pour >>>> eux. >>>> >>>> also - instead of COACID can we use Civic Access / Accès Civique? >>>> Both for the title and in the text? I changed the corresponding >>>> text in the wiki (on the front page). >>>> >>>> In general, we probably should never use COACID or the french >>>> version, CALIDC. Just CivicAccess.ca or AccesCivique.ca >>>> >>>> >>>> On 3/26/06, Patrick Dinnen <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On the maple leaf, I'm not a flag waving sort myself either. But >>>>> the thinking here was that without some indicator it's not at all >>>>> apparent that the group/site relates to Canadian data >>>>> specifically. The leaf seemed like a super quick and clear way of >>>>> communicating that visually. >>>>> >>>>> Personally I'm much more bothered by the use of the term 'Splash >>>>> page' than I am about using the flag ;-) But whatever people >>>>> think. >>>>> >>>>> Patrick >>>>> >>>>> Michael Lenczner wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> looks good. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would skip the maple leave, though. seems . . . gratuitous, to >>>>>> a quebecer at least. and it kinda looks like we might be >>>>>> "official", gov't funded or something. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/26/06, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> :-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> someday someone will have to explain to be the politics of the >>>>>>> s >>>>>>> word! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Patrick Dinnen wrote: >>>>>>> I agree that an initial page to explain a little about what the >>>>>>> site/a >>>>>>> wiki is would be helpful (lets say landing page, rather than >>>>>>> using the S >>>>>>> word with it's information-free connotations). Here's a 10 minute >>>>>>> design >>>>>>> on how that might look: >>>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=118104671&size=o >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thoughts? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Patrick >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Michael Lenczner wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I know tracey just added some more sections to the site. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> on my side: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1) i think we should keep a splash page before the wiki. that >>>>>>> way we can at some point set up another cms if we want to. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> if we don't keep a splash page then people will link to >>>>>>> http://www.civicaccess.ca to go to the wiki. To put a blog in >>>>>>> before that a year later would mean breaking everyone's links to >>>>>>> the wiki. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> so we should prevent http://www.civicaccess.ca from forwarding >>>>>>> automatically to the wiki. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> and 2) we should keep a splash page because many of the people >>>>>>> who we >>>>>>> want to become participants of civicaccess have never seen a wiki >>>>>>> before and will be kinda shocked with how unprofessional it seems. >>>>>>> especially because it seems that we're going to have to "go live" >>>>>>> before we get a nicely organized wiki with lots of content. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Steph - can you put a back a temporary splash page? and maybe >>>>>>> you or patrick or someone else can do a lightly designed splash >>>>>>> page explain civicaccess in french + english (link to suggested >>>>>>> text below) with a >>>>>>> link to the wiki? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.civicaccess.ca/wiki/Launch/SplashPage (suggested >>>>>>> text) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civic >>>>>>> access.ca >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civic >>>>>>> access.ca >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civic >>>>>>> access.ca >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>>>>> [hidden email] >>>>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civica >>>>>> ccess.ca >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicac >>>>> cess.ca >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list [hidden email] >>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca >>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca >> >> > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > [hidden email] > http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca _______________________________________________ CivicAccess-discuss mailing list [hidden email] http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca |
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In reply to this post by Gurstein, Michael
On 3/26/06, Gurstein, Michael <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I like the reforumulation below a lot, Michael! > > I don't however like this very much "We believe that citizens need open and free access to civic information and data, particularly in an information economy"... I think using the terminology of the "Information Society" is much more powerful in that one can draw link directly into the various clauses and proclamations (in which Canada was a lead actor) from the World Summit on the Information Society... (In fact it might not be a bad idea to have a quote somewhere from there... that was actually a mistake (economy). i changed it last night to society. but i'm glad that you like it. I forget who came up with it (tracey, pat, steph or I) > > I'm still in recovery mode from a major travel excursion or I would dig something out, but Robert Guerra or Bill McIver both of whom many (most?) of you know and who (both) could/should be enlisted in this enterprise would probably have something at their finger tips... Yikes. There's too much work to do on the current wiki. We're tackling that first (trying to come up with an architecture, decent navigation, putting up some friendly content, etc). > > MG > > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael Lenczner > Sent: March 26, 2006 8:27 PM > To: civicaccess discuss > Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] trying to finish up > > "Citizens for Open Access to Civic Information and Data (COACID) is being formed out of a belief that open civic information and data are necessary for being an engaged citizen in an "information society". We want to encourage all levels of government to make civic information and data freely accessible in open formats to citizens." > > > > > Patrick > > > > Daniel Haran wrote: > > > I've put up a mock up of the front page as I would see it. > > > http://www.civicaccess.ca/wiki/FrontPageMockup > > > > > > Eventually, a front page could have just the first paragraph, with > > > news (+RSS feed) and *ways for people to get involved*. That last > > > point is probably the most important thing from my perspective. What > > > do we want this site to accomplish? A lot of decisions flow very > > > easily once that's clear. > > > > > > Oh, and I made up a campaign. It's a devious ploy to get people > > > thinking about a census data campaign. (I think it's a great idea). > > > > > > Disclaimers: > > > 1- It's ugly. I never pretended to be a designer :) > > > 2- The information is mostly based on our About page, but I've > > > changed important parts (e.g. removing the non-commercial objective. > > > I think data should be free, and I think that was the consensus on > > > the list so > > > far) > > > 3- I didn't translate the page, as I think these should be separate > > > English/French pages as mentioned earlier. I can translate if/once it > > > has consensus. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Daniel. > > > > > > On 3/26/06, Michael Lenczner <[hidden email]> wrote: > > >> I'm worried that it's going to alienate lots of potential quebec > > >> participants. Dèja le plupart de la site est en Anglais ansi que > > >> les titres des pages. Aussi, le mailing list ca se passe presque > > >> seulment en Anglais. Je ne pense pas que on a besoin de leur > > >> donner un autre raison à croire que le site n'est pas crèer pour > > >> eux. > > >> > > >> also - instead of COACID can we use Civic Access / Accès Civique? > > >> Both for the title and in the text? I changed the corresponding > > >> text in the wiki (on the front page). > > >> > > >> In general, we probably should never use COACID or the french > > >> version, CALIDC. Just CivicAccess.ca or AccesCivique.ca > > >> > > >> > > >> On 3/26/06, Patrick Dinnen <[hidden email]> wrote: > > >>> On the maple leaf, I'm not a flag waving sort myself either. But > > >>> the thinking here was that without some indicator it's not at all > > >>> apparent that the group/site relates to Canadian data > > >>> specifically. The leaf seemed like a super quick and clear way of > > >>> communicating that visually. > > >>> > > >>> Personally I'm much more bothered by the use of the term 'Splash > > >>> page' than I am about using the flag ;-) But whatever people > > >>> think. > > >>> > > >>> Patrick > > >>> > > >>> Michael Lenczner wrote: > > >>>> looks good. > > >>>> > > >>>> I would skip the maple leave, though. seems . . . gratuitous, to > > >>>> a quebecer at least. and it kinda looks like we might be > > >>>> "official", gov't funded or something. > > >>>> > > >>>> On 3/26/06, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote: > > >>>>> :-) > > >>>>> > > >>>>> someday someone will have to explain to be the politics of the > > >>>>> s word! > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Patrick Dinnen wrote: > > >>>>> I agree that an initial page to explain a little about what the > > >>>>> site/a wiki is would be helpful (lets say landing page, rather > > >>>>> than using the S word with it's information-free connotations). > > >>>>> Here's a 10 minute design on how that might look: > > >>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=118104671&size=o > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Thoughts? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Patrick > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Michael Lenczner wrote: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I know tracey just added some more sections to the site. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> on my side: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> 1) i think we should keep a splash page before the wiki. that > > >>>>> way we can at some point set up another cms if we want to. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> if we don't keep a splash page then people will link to > > >>>>> http://www.civicaccess.ca to go to the wiki. To put a blog in > > >>>>> before that a year later would mean breaking everyone's links to > > >>>>> the wiki. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> so we should prevent http://www.civicaccess.ca from forwarding > > >>>>> automatically to the wiki. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> and 2) we should keep a splash page because many of the people > > >>>>> who we want to become participants of civicaccess have never > > >>>>> seen a wiki before and will be kinda shocked with how > > >>>>> unprofessional it seems. especially because it seems that we're > > >>>>> going to have to "go live" before we get a nicely organized wiki > > >>>>> with lots of content. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Steph - can you put a back a temporary splash page? and maybe > > >>>>> you or patrick or someone else can do a lightly designed splash > > >>>>> page explain civicaccess in french + english (link to suggested > > >>>>> text below) with a link to the wiki? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> http://www.civicaccess.ca/wiki/Launch/SplashPage (suggested > > >>>>> text) > > >>>>> > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > > >>>>> [hidden email] > > >>>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civic > > >>>>> access.ca > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > > >>>>> [hidden email] > > >>>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civic > > >>>>> access.ca > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > > >>>>> [hidden email] > > >>>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civic > > >>>>> access.ca > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > > >>>> [hidden email] > > >>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civica > > >>>> ccess.ca > > >>>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > > >>> [hidden email] > > >>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicac > > >>> cess.ca > > >>> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list [hidden email] > > >> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list [hidden email] > > > http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list [hidden email] > > http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca > > > > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list [hidden email] > http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca > > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > [hidden email] > http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca > |
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