geocoder.ca sued for open-data crowdsourced postal code list
Locked
12
12
geocoder.ca sued for open-data crowdsourced postal code list
 
|
geocoder.ca's ODbL-licensed postal code data (which I & several other
people on this list have used widely) has garnered them a lawsuit from Canada Post: http://geocoder.ca/?sued=1 They say their database was essentially crowdsourced: "When you make a query to geocoder containing for example this information "1435 Prince of Wales, Ottawa, ON K2C 1N5", we then extract the postal code "K2C 1N5" and insert it into the database that you may download for free on this website." They're being represented by CIPPIC. CIPPIC published a brief on a similar question several years ago: http://www.scribd.com/doc/53218667/2005-04-05-CIPPIC-Paul-Schreiber |
Re: geocoder.ca sued for open-data crowdsourced postal code list
|
|
This is Crazy!
Canada Post is a Crown Corporation and as such, I believe, it should be part of the Open Data policy. The crown is taking a citizen led organization to court for crowd sourcing data? This is hardly in the spirit of http://open.gc.ca/open-ouvert/ap-pa04-eng.asp#toc6!
Are you on the inside track Michael? If so, what can any of us do? Cheers t
On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Michael Mulley <[hidden email]> wrote: geocoder.ca's ODbL-licensed postal code data (which I & several other Tracey P. Lauriault 613-234-2805 |
Re: geocoder.ca sued for open-data crowdsourced postal code list
|
|
Yes this came up coincidentally yesterday at a meeting I had with a local hospital in Toronto who wanted to use some of our admin data for a handbook for local community doctors. We need to confirm, but we may not be permitted to load any data with postal code references in our Open Data Initiatives, but I will seek confirmation. What is FACT is that while Statistics Canada has now adopted a much better open data approach (e.g., elimination of the restrictive licensing policies) and more free data, there will continue to be charges for any StatsCan data with postal walk information.
Harvey
Harvey Low, MCIP, RPP
Manager, Social Research & Analysis Unit,
Toronto Social Development Finance & Administration Division, City Hall, 14th Floor E.,
>>> "Tracey P. Lauriault" <[hidden email]> 4/12/2012 11:23 am >>> This is Crazy! Canada Post is a Crown Corporation and as such, I believe, it should be part of the Open Data policy.
The crown is taking a citizen led organization to court for crowd sourcing data? This is hardly in the spirit of http://open.gc.ca/open-ouvert/ap-pa04-eng.asp#toc6!
Are you on the inside track Michael? If so, what can any of us do?
Cheers
t
On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Michael Mulley <[hidden email]> wrote: geocoder.ca's ODbL-licensed postal code data (which I & several other Tracey P. Lauriault 613-234-2805 |
Re: geocoder.ca sued for open-data crowdsourced postal code list
|
|
Trying to write a blog post on this now, hope to have an oped as well. This is a total disgrace. -- @daeaves Sent from my iPhone
|
Re: geocoder.ca sued for open-data crowdsourced postal code list
|
|
Disgrace, indeed. Elections Quebec uses a similar approach to Geocoder.ca to build a concordance between provincial electoral districts and postal codes. It offers this concordance for free on its website: http://www.electionsquebec.qc.ca/francais/provincial/carte-electorale/entites-administratives-liees-a-un-code-postal.php Ontario also offers a concordance file for free, but I don't yet know how they create this file: http://www.elections.on.ca/en-CA/Tools/ElectoralDistricts/PostalCodeFile.htm
On 2012-04-12, at 11:38 AM, David Eaves wrote:
|
Re: geocoder.ca sued for open-data crowdsourced postal code list
|
|
In reply to this post by Tracey P. Lauriault
In general, crown corporations are set up so that these organizations
_do_not_ have to be constrained by the rules that government departments have to follow. This includes procurement and hiring rules. It is very likely that both the GoC and the crown corporations will strongly resist the application to crown corporations the Open Data and transparency policies that are glacially (apparently?) making their way into GoC. -Glen On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote: > This is Crazy! > > Canada Post is a Crown Corporation and as such, I believe, it should be part > of the Open Data policy. > > The crown is taking a citizen led organization to court for crowd sourcing > data? This is hardly in the spirit > of http://open.gc.ca/open-ouvert/ap-pa04-eng.asp#toc6! > > Are you on the inside track Michael? If so, what can any of us do? > > Cheers > t > > > On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Michael Mulley <[hidden email]> > wrote: >> >> geocoder.ca's ODbL-licensed postal code data (which I & several other >> people on this list have used widely) has garnered them a lawsuit from >> Canada Post: http://geocoder.ca/?sued=1 >> >> They say their database was essentially crowdsourced: "When you make a >> query to geocoder containing for example this information "1435 Prince >> of Wales, Ottawa, ON K2C 1N5", we then extract the postal code "K2C >> 1N5" and insert it into the database that you may download for free on >> this website." >> >> They're being represented by CIPPIC. CIPPIC published a brief on a >> similar question several years ago: >> http://www.scribd.com/doc/53218667/2005-04-05-CIPPIC-Paul-Schreiber >> _______________________________________________ >> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss > > > > > -- > Tracey P. Lauriault > 613-234-2805 > > > > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss -- - http://zzzoot.blogspot.com/ - |
Re: geocoder.ca sued for open-data crowdsourced postal code list
|
|
In reply to this post by David Eaves
On 12-04-12 11:38 AM, David Eaves wrote:
> Trying to write a blog post on this now, hope to have an oped as well. > This is a total disgrace. Someone should author a good letter for us to all send to our elected representatives. I haven't researched the issue well enough to have the right references, but would be happy to do what I can to get the letter (and thus the issue) out there. I've found letter writing to MPs to be a great way to open the door to more conversations. BTW: The "Postal Code Lookup" letter is still at http://www.digital-copyright.ca/letters as I believe this information is still restricted. -- Russell McOrmond, Internet Consultant: <http://www.flora.ca/> Please help us tell the Canadian Parliament to protect our property rights as owners of Information Technology. Sign the petition! http://l.c11.ca/ict "The government, lobbied by legacy copyright holders and hardware manufacturers, can pry my camcorder, computer, home theatre, or portable media player from my cold dead hands!" |
Re: geocoder.ca sued for open-data crowdsourced postal code list
|
|
In reply to this post by James McKinney-2
I was following this story as well, and wondered "why now?".
Geocoder has been doing this for quite a while without issue, but recently changed to the ODbL in the last year if I remember correctly (for their free data set). I do not recall the "crowdsourcing" angle however, and my understanding was that their data was derived from other data sets (not input by web surfers -- who were probably unaware). On the other hand, the statement of claim makes it sound like what really pissed off Canada Post was the "Unrestricted Use License". When you purchase an official postal code data set, you are required to put a ridiculous blub about how postal code is an official mark of CP, etc on your website... Anyhow, this is a good opportunity -- now to see if public anger changes policy/law, or if the "you can't own a fact" defence works. On 2012-04-12, at 8:52 AM, James McKinney wrote: > Disgrace, indeed. Elections Quebec uses a similar approach to Geocoder.ca to build a concordance between provincial electoral districts and postal codes. It offers this concordance for free on its website: http://www.electionsquebec.qc.ca/francais/provincial/carte-electorale/entites-administratives-liees-a-un-code-postal.php Ontario also offers a concordance file for free, but I don't yet know how they create this file: http://www.elections.on.ca/en-CA/Tools/ElectoralDistricts/PostalCodeFile.htm > > On 2012-04-12, at 11:38 AM, David Eaves wrote: > >> Trying to write a blog post on this now, hope to have an oped as well. This is a total disgrace. >> >> -- >> www.eaves.ca >> @daeaves >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 2012-04-12, at 8:29 AM, "Harvey Low" <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> Yes this came up coincidentally yesterday at a meeting I had with a local hospital in Toronto who wanted to use some of our admin data for a handbook for local community doctors. We need to confirm, but we may not be permitted to load any data with postal code references in our Open Data Initiatives, but I will seek confirmation. What is FACT is that while Statistics Canada has now adopted a much better open data approach (e.g., elimination of the restrictive licensing policies) and more free data, there will continue to be charges for any StatsCan data with postal walk information. >>> >>> Harvey >>> >>> Harvey Low, MCIP, RPP >>> Manager, Social Research & Analysis Unit, >>> Toronto Social Development Finance & Administration Division, >>> City Hall, 14th Floor E., >>> 100 Queen Street West., >>> Toronto, Ontario, M5H-2N2 >>> PH: 416-392-8660 >>> FX: 416-392-4976 >>> EM: [hidden email] >>> >>> >>> >>> "Tracey P. Lauriault" <[hidden email]> 4/12/2012 11:23 am >>> >>> This is Crazy! >>> >>> Canada Post is a Crown Corporation and as such, I believe, it should be part of the Open Data policy. >>> >>> The crown is taking a citizen led organization to court for crowd sourcing data? This is hardly in the spirit of http://open.gc.ca/open-ouvert/ap-pa04-eng.asp#toc6! >>> >>> Are you on the inside track Michael? If so, what can any of us do? >>> >>> Cheers >>> t >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Michael Mulley <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> geocoder.ca's ODbL-licensed postal code data (which I & several other >>> people on this list have used widely) has garnered them a lawsuit from >>> Canada Post: http://geocoder.ca/?sued=1 >>> >>> They say their database was essentially crowdsourced: "When you make a >>> query to geocoder containing for example this information "1435 Prince >>> of Wales, Ottawa, ON K2C 1N5", we then extract the postal code "K2C >>> 1N5" and insert it into the database that you may download for free on >>> this website." >>> >>> They're being represented by CIPPIC. CIPPIC published a brief on a >>> similar question several years ago: >>> http://www.scribd.com/doc/53218667/2005-04-05-CIPPIC-Paul-Schreiber >>> _______________________________________________ >>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tracey P. Lauriault >>> 613-234-2805 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss >> _______________________________________________ >> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss |
Re: geocoder.ca sued for open-data crowdsourced postal code list
|
|
In reply to this post by Glen Newton
Besides the question of open data, there's also the question of the IP.
Can Canada Post claim ownership on this? Does gathering data that is available to any citizen (my postal code and my location) can be forbidden? I remember during a presentation of the CIPPIC (who will defend GeoCoder.ca), it was said that in Canada there is no precedent concerning the (re)use of publicly and freely available data; the case would be quite difficult. Steph Le 12 avril 2012 16:02, Glen Newton <[hidden email]> a écrit : In general, crown corporations are set up so that these organizations |
Re: geocoder.ca sued for open-data crowdsourced postal code list
|
|
In reply to this post by Cory Horner
Yeah, in this case "crowdsourced" is the slightly misleading,
PR-friendly version of "derived from other data sets." But what's important is their claim -- which, based on my experience with the geocoder.ca dataset, I believe -- that they're not just copying a dataset licensed from Canada Post. On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 12:20 PM, Cory Horner <[hidden email]> wrote: > I was following this story as well, and wondered "why now?". > > Geocoder has been doing this for quite a while without issue, but recently changed to the ODbL in the last year if I remember correctly (for their free data set). I do not recall the "crowdsourcing" angle however, and my understanding was that their data was derived from other data sets (not input by web surfers -- who were probably unaware). > > On the other hand, the statement of claim makes it sound like what really pissed off Canada Post was the "Unrestricted Use License". When you purchase an official postal code data set, you are required to put a ridiculous blub about how postal code is an official mark of CP, etc on your website... > > Anyhow, this is a good opportunity -- now to see if public anger changes policy/law, or if the "you can't own a fact" defence works. > > On 2012-04-12, at 8:52 AM, James McKinney wrote: > >> Disgrace, indeed. Elections Quebec uses a similar approach to Geocoder.ca to build a concordance between provincial electoral districts and postal codes. It offers this concordance for free on its website: http://www.electionsquebec.qc.ca/francais/provincial/carte-electorale/entites-administratives-liees-a-un-code-postal.php Ontario also offers a concordance file for free, but I don't yet know how they create this file: http://www.elections.on.ca/en-CA/Tools/ElectoralDistricts/PostalCodeFile.htm >> >> On 2012-04-12, at 11:38 AM, David Eaves wrote: >> >>> Trying to write a blog post on this now, hope to have an oped as well. This is a total disgrace. >>> >>> -- >>> www.eaves.ca >>> @daeaves >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 2012-04-12, at 8:29 AM, "Harvey Low" <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>>> Yes this came up coincidentally yesterday at a meeting I had with a local hospital in Toronto who wanted to use some of our admin data for a handbook for local community doctors. We need to confirm, but we may not be permitted to load any data with postal code references in our Open Data Initiatives, but I will seek confirmation. What is FACT is that while Statistics Canada has now adopted a much better open data approach (e.g., elimination of the restrictive licensing policies) and more free data, there will continue to be charges for any StatsCan data with postal walk information. >>>> >>>> Harvey >>>> >>>> Harvey Low, MCIP, RPP >>>> Manager, Social Research & Analysis Unit, >>>> Toronto Social Development Finance & Administration Division, >>>> City Hall, 14th Floor E., >>>> 100 Queen Street West., >>>> Toronto, Ontario, M5H-2N2 >>>> PH: 416-392-8660 >>>> FX: 416-392-4976 >>>> EM: [hidden email] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> "Tracey P. Lauriault" <[hidden email]> 4/12/2012 11:23 am >>> >>>> This is Crazy! >>>> >>>> Canada Post is a Crown Corporation and as such, I believe, it should be part of the Open Data policy. >>>> >>>> The crown is taking a citizen led organization to court for crowd sourcing data? This is hardly in the spirit of http://open.gc.ca/open-ouvert/ap-pa04-eng.asp#toc6! >>>> >>>> Are you on the inside track Michael? If so, what can any of us do? >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> t >>>> >>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Michael Mulley <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> geocoder.ca's ODbL-licensed postal code data (which I & several other >>>> people on this list have used widely) has garnered them a lawsuit from >>>> Canada Post: http://geocoder.ca/?sued=1 >>>> >>>> They say their database was essentially crowdsourced: "When you make a >>>> query to geocoder containing for example this information "1435 Prince >>>> of Wales, Ottawa, ON K2C 1N5", we then extract the postal code "K2C >>>> 1N5" and insert it into the database that you may download for free on >>>> this website." >>>> >>>> They're being represented by CIPPIC. CIPPIC published a brief on a >>>> similar question several years ago: >>>> http://www.scribd.com/doc/53218667/2005-04-05-CIPPIC-Paul-Schreiber >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tracey P. Lauriault >>>> 613-234-2805 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss >>> _______________________________________________ >>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss >> >> _______________________________________________ >> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss |
Re: geocoder.ca sued for open-data crowdsourced postal code list
|
|
http://postalcodedownload.com/ appears to be down.
I am just getting a blank page for it. Others? -Glen On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Michael Mulley <[hidden email]> wrote: > Yeah, in this case "crowdsourced" is the slightly misleading, > PR-friendly version of "derived from other data sets." But what's > important is their claim -- which, based on my experience with the > geocoder.ca dataset, I believe -- that they're not just copying a > dataset licensed from Canada Post. > > On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 12:20 PM, Cory Horner <[hidden email]> wrote: >> I was following this story as well, and wondered "why now?". >> >> Geocoder has been doing this for quite a while without issue, but recently changed to the ODbL in the last year if I remember correctly (for their free data set). I do not recall the "crowdsourcing" angle however, and my understanding was that their data was derived from other data sets (not input by web surfers -- who were probably unaware). >> >> On the other hand, the statement of claim makes it sound like what really pissed off Canada Post was the "Unrestricted Use License". When you purchase an official postal code data set, you are required to put a ridiculous blub about how postal code is an official mark of CP, etc on your website... >> >> Anyhow, this is a good opportunity -- now to see if public anger changes policy/law, or if the "you can't own a fact" defence works. >> >> On 2012-04-12, at 8:52 AM, James McKinney wrote: >> >>> Disgrace, indeed. Elections Quebec uses a similar approach to Geocoder.ca to build a concordance between provincial electoral districts and postal codes. It offers this concordance for free on its website: http://www.electionsquebec.qc.ca/francais/provincial/carte-electorale/entites-administratives-liees-a-un-code-postal.php Ontario also offers a concordance file for free, but I don't yet know how they create this file: http://www.elections.on.ca/en-CA/Tools/ElectoralDistricts/PostalCodeFile.htm >>> >>> On 2012-04-12, at 11:38 AM, David Eaves wrote: >>> >>>> Trying to write a blog post on this now, hope to have an oped as well. This is a total disgrace. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.eaves.ca >>>> @daeaves >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On 2012-04-12, at 8:29 AM, "Harvey Low" <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Yes this came up coincidentally yesterday at a meeting I had with a local hospital in Toronto who wanted to use some of our admin data for a handbook for local community doctors. We need to confirm, but we may not be permitted to load any data with postal code references in our Open Data Initiatives, but I will seek confirmation. What is FACT is that while Statistics Canada has now adopted a much better open data approach (e.g., elimination of the restrictive licensing policies) and more free data, there will continue to be charges for any StatsCan data with postal walk information. >>>>> >>>>> Harvey >>>>> >>>>> Harvey Low, MCIP, RPP >>>>> Manager, Social Research & Analysis Unit, >>>>> Toronto Social Development Finance & Administration Division, >>>>> City Hall, 14th Floor E., >>>>> 100 Queen Street West., >>>>> Toronto, Ontario, M5H-2N2 >>>>> PH: 416-392-8660 >>>>> FX: 416-392-4976 >>>>> EM: [hidden email] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> "Tracey P. Lauriault" <[hidden email]> 4/12/2012 11:23 am >>> >>>>> This is Crazy! >>>>> >>>>> Canada Post is a Crown Corporation and as such, I believe, it should be part of the Open Data policy. >>>>> >>>>> The crown is taking a citizen led organization to court for crowd sourcing data? This is hardly in the spirit of http://open.gc.ca/open-ouvert/ap-pa04-eng.asp#toc6! >>>>> >>>>> Are you on the inside track Michael? If so, what can any of us do? >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> t >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Michael Mulley <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> geocoder.ca's ODbL-licensed postal code data (which I & several other >>>>> people on this list have used widely) has garnered them a lawsuit from >>>>> Canada Post: http://geocoder.ca/?sued=1 >>>>> >>>>> They say their database was essentially crowdsourced: "When you make a >>>>> query to geocoder containing for example this information "1435 Prince >>>>> of Wales, Ottawa, ON K2C 1N5", we then extract the postal code "K2C >>>>> 1N5" and insert it into the database that you may download for free on >>>>> this website." >>>>> >>>>> They're being represented by CIPPIC. CIPPIC published a brief on a >>>>> similar question several years ago: >>>>> http://www.scribd.com/doc/53218667/2005-04-05-CIPPIC-Paul-Schreiber >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Tracey P. Lauriault >>>>> 613-234-2805 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>>>> [hidden email] >>>>> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>>> [hidden email] >>>> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss -- - http://zzzoot.blogspot.com/ - |
Re: geocoder.ca sued for open-data crowdsourced postal code list
|
|
Blank page for me. 3 html tags and that's it. On Apr 12, 2012 1:29 PM, "Glen Newton" <[hidden email]> wrote:
http://postalcodedownload.com/ appears to be down. |
Re: geocoder.ca sued for open-data crowdsourced postal code list
|
|
In reply to this post by Glen Newton
This is factually true, however, I know that many GoC public servants
and some politicians have actually been quite keen on making postal code data open, the problem is they actually have no mechanism by which to force Canada Posts hand. The fact is, as a crown corporation, the Canada Post is not bound by the Open Government directive. Indeed, they will claim a fiduciary duty to tax payers to earn the best possible return on their assets - including postal codes - to justify why they should be charging for them. The fact that this creates effectively a tax on innovation and damages economic productivity is not their concern. Sigh. Dave On 12-04-12 9:02 AM, Glen Newton wrote: > In general, crown corporations are set up so that these organizations > _do_not_ have to be constrained by the rules that government > departments have to follow. > This includes procurement and hiring rules. > > It is very likely that both the GoC and the crown corporations will > strongly resist the application to crown corporations the Open Data > and transparency policies that are glacially (apparently?) making > their way into GoC. > > -Glen > > On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Tracey P. Lauriault > <[hidden email]> wrote: >> This is Crazy! >> >> Canada Post is a Crown Corporation and as such, I believe, it should be part >> of the Open Data policy. >> >> The crown is taking a citizen led organization to court for crowd sourcing >> data? This is hardly in the spirit >> of http://open.gc.ca/open-ouvert/ap-pa04-eng.asp#toc6! >> >> Are you on the inside track Michael? If so, what can any of us do? >> >> Cheers >> t >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Michael Mulley<[hidden email]> >> wrote: >>> geocoder.ca's ODbL-licensed postal code data (which I& several other >>> people on this list have used widely) has garnered them a lawsuit from >>> Canada Post: http://geocoder.ca/?sued=1 >>> >>> They say their database was essentially crowdsourced: "When you make a >>> query to geocoder containing for example this information "1435 Prince >>> of Wales, Ottawa, ON K2C 1N5", we then extract the postal code "K2C >>> 1N5" and insert it into the database that you may download for free on >>> this website." >>> >>> They're being represented by CIPPIC. CIPPIC published a brief on a >>> similar question several years ago: >>> http://www.scribd.com/doc/53218667/2005-04-05-CIPPIC-Paul-Schreiber >>> _______________________________________________ >>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss >> >> >> >> -- >> Tracey P. Lauriault >> 613-234-2805 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss > > |
Re: geocoder.ca sued for open-data crowdsourced postal code list
|
|
Perhaps someone could use the method of access in the Access to Information Act to order some briefing materials about this issue? There's a $5.00 application fee and it might do well to save some time and energy. Here's what the ATI insiders have been ordering from Canada Post: http://www.canadapost.ca/cpo/mc/aboutus/corporate/aticompletedrequests.jsf?LOCALE=en From: David Eaves <[hidden email]> To: [hidden email] Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 10:39:15 AM Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] geocoder.ca sued for open-data crowdsourced postal code list This is factually true, however, I know that many GoC public servants and some politicians have actually been quite keen on making postal code data open, the problem is they actually have no mechanism by which to force Canada Posts hand. The fact is, as a crown corporation, the Canada Post is not bound by the Open Government directive. Indeed, they will claim a fiduciary duty to tax payers to earn the best possible return on their assets - including postal codes - to justify why they should be charging for them. The fact that this creates effectively a tax on innovation and damages economic productivity is not their concern. Sigh. Dave On 12-04-12 9:02 AM, Glen Newton wrote: > In general, crown corporations are set up so that these organizations > _do_not_ have to be constrained by the rules that government > departments have to follow. > This includes procurement and hiring rules. > > It is very likely that both the GoC and the crown corporations will > strongly resist the application to crown corporations the Open Data > and transparency policies that are glacially (apparently?) making > their way into GoC. > > -Glen > > On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Tracey P. Lauriault > <[hidden email]> wrote: >> This is Crazy! >> >> Canada Post is a Crown Corporation and as such, I believe, it should be part >> of the Open Data policy. >> >> The crown is taking a citizen led organization to court for crowd sourcing >> data? This is hardly in the spirit >> of http://open.gc.ca/open-ouvert/ap-pa04-eng.asp#toc6! >> >> Are you on the inside track Michael? If so, what can any of us do? >> >> Cheers >> t >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Michael Mulley<[hidden email]> >> wrote: >>> geocoder.ca's ODbL-licensed postal code data (which I& several other >>> people on this list have used widely) has garnered them a lawsuit from >>> Canada Post: http://geocoder.ca/?sued=1 >>> >>> They say their database was essentially crowdsourced: "When you make a >>> query to geocoder containing for example this information "1435 Prince >>> of Wales, Ottawa, ON K2C 1N5", we then extract the postal code "K2C >>> 1N5" and insert it into the database that you may download for free on >>> this website." >>> >>> They're being represented by CIPPIC. CIPPIC published a brief on a >>> similar question several years ago: >>> http://www.scribd.com/doc/53218667/2005-04-05-CIPPIC-Paul-Schreiber >>> _______________________________________________ >>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss >> >> >> >> -- >> Tracey P. Lauriault >> 613-234-2805 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss > > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss |
Re: geocoder.ca sued for open-data crowdsourced postal code list
|
|
I assume CIPPIC will do this? If that's not a fair assumption, then someone should definitely tell them! On 2012-04-12, at 2:59 PM, Mark Weiler wrote:
|
Re: geocoder.ca sued for open-data crowdsourced postal code list
|
|
Glad to see this is stirring up interest and some well called-for
criticism!! CIPPIC's representing Geolytica pro bono in this matter
and, on Mr. Ruci's behalf, we just filed a Statement of Defense at
the federal court this afternoon
At this point I won't comment too much on the mailing list here, but for those interested, check out the full text of our filing: http://www.cippic.ca/en/copyright/geolytica-statement-of-defence. |
Re: geocoder.ca sued for open-data crowdsourced postal code list
|
|
Just by example, I requested posting of 6-digit boundary data for our application www.toronto.ca/wellbeing and was informed that I can't. The irony is that the healthcare system uses postal codes to assist in the referral of patients to services in the community. Having simple reference to postal code data helps in service delivery! So sometimes the benefits of data go beyond the obvious principle and notion of open data and have huge impacts on social service delivery!
Harvey Low, MCIP, RPP
Manager, Social Research & Analysis Unit,
Toronto Social Development Finance & Administration Division, City Hall, 14th Floor E.,
>>> Kent Mewhort <[hidden email]> 4/12/2012 5:05 pm >>> Glad to see this is stirring up interest and some well called-for criticism!! CIPPIC's representing Geolytica pro bono in this matter and, on Mr. Ruci's behalf, we just filed a Statement of Defense at the federal court this afternoon At this point I won't comment too much on the mailing list here, but for those interested, check out the full text of our filing: http://www.cippic.ca/en/copyright/geolytica-statement-of-defence. |
Re: geocoder.ca sued for open-data crowdsourced postal code list
|
|
Post code data is part of CANVEC certainly for Ontario which means essentially it is Open. I used it to add the postcodes to Ottawa in OpenStreetMap.
Cheerio John On 12 April 2012 17:12, Harvey Low <[hidden email]> wrote:
|
Re: geocoder.ca sued for open-data crowdsourced postal code list
|
|
Correction I imported the house numbers from CANVEC, when I inspected it using JOSM I found that some houses on the map have a post code and some don't which means the post codes have probably been crowd sourced.
Having said that you can search Openstreetmap by postcode in Canada www.openstreetmap.org, just drop in the postcode and Canada, this was added at my request when I found that I could search the UK by Post code but not Canada. The search is done using www.geonames.org Cheerio John On 12 April 2012 17:17, john whelan <[hidden email]> wrote: Post code data is part of CANVEC certainly for Ontario which means essentially it is Open. I used it to add the postcodes to Ottawa in OpenStreetMap. |
Re: geocoder.ca sued for open-data crowdsourced postal code list
|
|
In reply to this post by Kent Mewhort
I really like paragraphs 23 onwards. Choice quotes:
"Contrary to the Plaintiff's assertion at paragraph 11 of the Statement of Claim that 'Her Majesty's copyright to the CPC Database was
transferred to Canada Post' under section 63 of the Canada Post Corporation, no section 63 of the current Canada Post Corporation Act even exists. Neither does the Act that came into force in 1981 transfer such title." (emphasis mine) And: "Geolytica pleads that the CPC Database is itself a fact." Should be interesting! On 2012-04-12, at 5:05 PM, Kent Mewhort wrote:
|
«
Return to CivicAccess
|
1 view|%1 views
| Free forum by Nabble | Edit this page |