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front de liberation de codes postal

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Hugh McGuire

front de liberation de codes postal

I suggest in addition to data cracking/hacking work, we consider
writing an open letter to the government agencies & ministers,
opposition MPs, and journalists, and try to put some pressure on. And
get an online petition going (I don't think they do much, but they
give something for bloggers to link to). This should be accompanied
by a concerted attempt to get specific organizations to support the
project (NGOs & universities, but also, say, the Bloc, the NDP, maybe
even the now-oppositional Liberals).

perhaps a url? FLCP.ca ... Front de Liberation Code Postal ... it's
available! ;).

Again, this "tiny" little data project demonstrates so clearly the
dunderheadedness of Canada's govt data policies, in a way that many
people could understand.

Daniel Haran

Re: front de liberation de codes postal

It seems to me a salient point that the results returned by
elections.ca differ from those of parl.gc.ca. Important enough to put
on a petition: not only is this silliness costing, it's also
misleading people wanting to participate in our democracy.

On 2/9/07, Hugh McGuire <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I suggest in addition to data cracking/hacking work, we consider
> writing an open letter to the government agencies & ministers,
> opposition MPs, and journalists, and try to put some pressure on. And
> get an online petition going (I don't think they do much, but they
> give something for bloggers to link to). This should be accompanied
> by a concerted attempt to get specific organizations to support the
> project (NGOs & universities, but also, say, the Bloc, the NDP, maybe
> even the now-oppositional Liberals).
>
> perhaps a url? FLCP.ca ... Front de Liberation Code Postal ... it's
> available! ;).
>
> Again, this "tiny" little data project demonstrates so clearly the
> dunderheadedness of Canada's govt data policies, in a way that many
> people could understand.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca
>

--
Change the world one loan at a time - visit Kiva.org to find out how

Tracey P. Lauriault-2

Re: front de liberation de codes postal

In reply to this post by Hugh McGuire

I think this is a great idea and I would really like it if could be
considered as as CivicAccess or COACID action.

For those who might be able to get something like this off the ground.
There is tons of great information here:
http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/CensusAction

It was an activity primarily aimed at the CENSUS however some of the
documentation can be used for the Free the Postal Code Data as well and
there was some good discussion.

I created a spot for people to collaborate here:
http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/Actions, I did not know how you wanted to
call it or what the tagline should so edit away.

Hugh McGuire wrote:

Hugh McGuire

Re: front de liberation de codes postal

of course it's a civicaccess action ;-) !

actually thinking about this... and this is how I envision
CivicAccess progressing... as a central place where the spokes of
many different projects all join with a shared belief in free data
access. but we really need the projects (some exist already, eg:
howdtheyvote.ca, openpolitics.ca, netizen-news.ca etc; some could be
new initiatives of/inspired by civicaccess ... or just related to the
mission).

h.

On Feb 9, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Tracey P. Lauriault wrote:

> I think this is a great idea and I would really like it if could be
> considered as as CivicAccess or COACID action.
>
> For those who might be able to get something like this off the ground.
> There is tons of great information here:
> http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/CensusAction
>
> It was an activity primarily aimed at the CENSUS however some of the
> documentation can be used for the Free the Postal Code Data as well
> and
> there was some good discussion.
>
> I created a spot for people to collaborate here:
> http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/Actions, I did not know how you wanted to
> call it or what the tagline should so edit away.
>
>
> Hugh McGuire wrote:
>> I suggest in addition to data cracking/hacking work, we consider
>> writing an open letter to the government agencies & ministers,
>> opposition MPs, and journalists, and try to put some pressure on. And
>> get an online petition going (I don't think they do much, but they
>> give something for bloggers to link to). This should be accompanied
>> by a concerted attempt to get specific organizations to support the
>> project (NGOs & universities, but also, say, the Bloc, the NDP, maybe
>> even the now-oppositional Liberals).
>>
>> perhaps a url? FLCP.ca ... Front de Liberation Code Postal ... it's
>> available! ;).
>>
>> Again, this "tiny" little data project demonstrates so clearly the
>> dunderheadedness of Canada's govt data policies, in a way that many
>> people could understand.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-
>> discuss_civicaccess.ca
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-
> discuss_civicaccess.ca

Tracey P. Lauriault-2

Re: front de liberation de codes postal

Excellent!

For myself and others who are just learning how these things all come
together i hope we can all leave a few breadcrumbs on the wiki soz we
can find our way around and build on that knowledge later and for other
initiatives.
t

Hugh McGuire wrote:

> of course it's a civicaccess action ;-) !
>
> actually thinking about this... and this is how I envision
> CivicAccess progressing... as a central place where the spokes of
> many different projects all join with a shared belief in free data
> access. but we really need the projects (some exist already, eg:
> howdtheyvote.ca, openpolitics.ca, netizen-news.ca etc; some could be
> new initiatives of/inspired by civicaccess ... or just related to the
> mission).
>
> h.
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 9, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Tracey P. Lauriault wrote:
>
>
>> I think this is a great idea and I would really like it if could be
>> considered as as CivicAccess or COACID action.
>>
>> For those who might be able to get something like this off the ground.
>> There is tons of great information here:
>> http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/CensusAction
>>
>> It was an activity primarily aimed at the CENSUS however some of the
>> documentation can be used for the Free the Postal Code Data as well
>> and
>> there was some good discussion.
>>
>> I created a spot for people to collaborate here:
>> http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/Actions, I did not know how you wanted to
>> call it or what the tagline should so edit away.
>>
>>
>> Hugh McGuire wrote:
>>
>>> I suggest in addition to data cracking/hacking work, we consider
>>> writing an open letter to the government agencies & ministers,
>>> opposition MPs, and journalists, and try to put some pressure on. And
>>> get an online petition going (I don't think they do much, but they
>>> give something for bloggers to link to). This should be accompanied
>>> by a concerted attempt to get specific organizations to support the
>>> project (NGOs & universities, but also, say, the Bloc, the NDP, maybe
>>> even the now-oppositional Liberals).
>>>
>>> perhaps a url? FLCP.ca ... Front de Liberation Code Postal ... it's
>>> available! ;).
>>>
>>> Again, this "tiny" little data project demonstrates so clearly the
>>> dunderheadedness of Canada's govt data policies, in a way that many
>>> people could understand.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-
>>> discuss_civicaccess.ca
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-
>> discuss_civicaccess.ca
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca
>
>
>

Hugh McGuire

Re: front de liberation de codes postal

it's on the wiki, if interested, please visit the site and edit as
you wish:
http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/PostalCodes

see below for the 1st draft text.

"Free the Postal Codes"

In order to vote in a democracy, you need to know who you can vote
for. To know who you can vote for, you need to know your electoral
district, so you can find out who the candidates are. Linking
electoral districts with other information (say, government grants to
corporations or organization in that district, how many hospitals are
in that district, how many government jobs are in that district etc)
is an important way citizens can analyse how their democracy is
functioning.

The Canadian government has data about postal codes linked with
electoral districts, that allow citizens to find out who they can
vote for. At least four government organizations make this data
available: electionscanada.ca, canadapost.ca, statscanada.ca, and
parl.gc.ca. But it is available for free only district by district.
You cannot access and use the whole database, unless you pay for it.
Currently the cost of this data is prohibitive for citizens and
citizen groups, however, it is well withing the reach of marketing
companies and other commercial entities willing to pay for the data
for the purpose of making profits.

CivicAccess.ca believes that this data should be made available to
Canadian citizens for FREE in an OPEN data format. The government has
collected the data on our behalf, not on behalf of marketing
companies. We wish to make this data available in order that citizens
may use it and share it for the prurposes of increasing our
understanding of how our democracy is working, and how we can improve
our political process.

We demand that the Government of Canada mandate that postal code/
electoral district data be made available for free to all Canadian
citizens in an open format.

We are seeking support for this demand from:

*elected members of parliament
*federal political parties
*editorial boards of newspapers in Canada
*non-profit citizen and democracy groups
*universities
*digital rights and copyright activist groups
*citizens of Canada

On Feb 9, 2007, at 10:55 AM, Tracey P. Lauriault wrote:

> Excellent!
>
> For myself and others who are just learning how these things all come
> together i hope we can all leave a few breadcrumbs on the wiki soz we
> can find our way around and build on that knowledge later and for
> other
> initiatives.
> t
>
> Hugh McGuire wrote:
>> of course it's a civicaccess action ;-) !
>>
>> actually thinking about this... and this is how I envision
>> CivicAccess progressing... as a central place where the spokes of
>> many different projects all join with a shared belief in free data
>> access. but we really need the projects (some exist already, eg:
>> howdtheyvote.ca, openpolitics.ca, netizen-news.ca etc; some could be
>> new initiatives of/inspired by civicaccess ... or just related to the
>> mission).
>>
>> h.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 9, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Tracey P. Lauriault wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I think this is a great idea and I would really like it if could be
>>> considered as as CivicAccess or COACID action.
>>>
>>> For those who might be able to get something like this off the
>>> ground.
>>> There is tons of great information here:
>>> http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/CensusAction
>>>
>>> It was an activity primarily aimed at the CENSUS however some of the
>>> documentation can be used for the Free the Postal Code Data as well
>>> and
>>> there was some good discussion.
>>>
>>> I created a spot for people to collaborate here:
>>> http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/Actions, I did not know how you
>>> wanted to
>>> call it or what the tagline should so edit away.
>>>
>>>
>>> Hugh McGuire wrote:
>>>
>>>> I suggest in addition to data cracking/hacking work, we consider
>>>> writing an open letter to the government agencies & ministers,
>>>> opposition MPs, and journalists, and try to put some pressure
>>>> on. And
>>>> get an online petition going (I don't think they do much, but they
>>>> give something for bloggers to link to). This should be accompanied
>>>> by a concerted attempt to get specific organizations to support the
>>>> project (NGOs & universities, but also, say, the Bloc, the NDP,
>>>> maybe
>>>> even the now-oppositional Liberals).
>>>>
>>>> perhaps a url? FLCP.ca ... Front de Liberation Code Postal ... it's
>>>> available! ;).
>>>>
>>>> Again, this "tiny" little data project demonstrates so clearly the
>>>> dunderheadedness of Canada's govt data policies, in a way that many
>>>> people could understand.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-
>>>> discuss_civicaccess.ca
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-
>>> discuss_civicaccess.ca
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-
>> discuss_civicaccess.ca
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-
> discuss_civicaccess.ca

Olivier Charbonneau

Re: front de liberation de codes postal

In reply to this post by Hugh McGuire

Hi Civic Access !

I am sorry for not responding to these emails - many fires to take care of (and many more to start). First off, I am not a lawyer and this is forwarded on the list for discussion purposes only. Facts are not protected by copyright, UNLESS there is some originality in the selection. An exhaustive list of facts CANNOT BE PROTECTED BY COPYRIGHT. On the other hand, one could impose CONTRACTUAL limitations to using data (unoriginal compilation of facts)... but not within the copyright framework.

This being said, I can get the major library association to support this action - in fact, I am working on a coalition of consumer/library/education institutions, and I hope to be able to provide documentation in the next few months... but in the interim, once a consensus is reached from your group, please contact me directly (I can't read all the posts on the list - no time) and we<ll discuss how we can get the library organisations on board.

Take care group - and congratulations for the awsome energy and work !
Olivier
PS. here is what I am working on these days:
http://www.booknetcanada.com/events/index.html
(look at the panel at 4:15 on March 21st)

Many thanks! Merci et au plaisir!

Olivier Charbonneau
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Subject Librarian, Concordia University
Accountancy, Decision Sciences, Management of Information Systems
Phone: 514-848-2424 x7362
Email: [hidden email]
Blog: http://www.culturelibre.ca/
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Hugh McGuire wrote:

of course it's a civicaccess action ;-) !

actually thinking about this... and this is how I envision  
CivicAccess progressing... as a central place where the spokes of  
many different projects all join with a shared belief in free data  
access. but we really need the projects (some exist already, eg:  
howdtheyvote.ca, openpolitics.ca, netizen-news.ca etc; some could be  
new initiatives of/inspired by civicaccess ... or just related to the  
mission).

h.




On Feb 9, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Tracey P. Lauriault wrote:

I think this is a great idea and I would really like it if could be
considered as as CivicAccess or COACID action.

For those who might be able to get something like this off the ground.
There is tons of great information here:
http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/CensusAction

It was an activity primarily aimed at the CENSUS however some of the
documentation can be used for the Free the Postal Code Data as well  
and
there was some good discussion.

I created a spot for people to collaborate here:
http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/Actions,  I did not know how you wanted to
call it or what the tagline should so edit away.


Hugh McGuire wrote:

I suggest in addition to data cracking/hacking work, we consider
writing an open letter to the government agencies & ministers,
opposition MPs, and journalists, and try to put some pressure on. And
get an online petition going (I don't think they do much, but they
give something for bloggers to link to). This should be accompanied
by a concerted attempt to get specific organizations to support the
project (NGOs & universities, but also, say, the Bloc, the NDP, maybe
even the now-oppositional Liberals).

perhaps a url? FLCP.ca ... Front de Liberation Code Postal ... it's
available! ;).

Again, this "tiny" little data project demonstrates so clearly the
dunderheadedness of Canada's govt data policies, in a way that many
people could understand.



_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess- 
discuss_civicaccess.ca

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess- 
discuss_civicaccess.ca



_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca

liss jeffrey

Re: front de liberation de codes postal

Yes i support this also, and will take the idea to our New Democracy Workshop on Monday when we next meet ( netizen-news.ca has details).

Our projects, including ecommons/agora ( ecommons.net ), and bydesign-elab.net include technical experts and developers as well as community and policy experts and producers. The many sister sites we have created are designed to be constellation sites (meaning no one main body), orbiting under the eLab slogan ' we exist not to reinvent the wheel, but to connect the spokes.'
So you could say that we are all operating in a kind of parallel public interest space :)

In line with our strategic approach, not reinventing wheels, and this civic access idea, I can contact the existing Data Liberation Front, which has members from Stats Can. I am sure they could offer some solid advice on how to make this work.
We could each act in our respective areas of competence, and report into the wiki and on our own sites.
Previously while helping David Mason with his project to make a Canadian they work for you site ( the original is British), I arranged an Ottawa meeting with a spokesperson for Hansard, as David ( and his group) wanted to reuse Hansard data.
That project alas fell victim to David ( and Stefan's) time crunch, but this idea would I am sure enjoy the same support from our various associates.

So we are on board with this idea and can help.

Liss Jeffrey, PhD
Diector, McLuhan global research network

On 2/9/07, Olivier Charbonneau <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Civic Access !

I am sorry for not responding to these emails - many fires to take care of (and many more to start). First off, I am not a lawyer and this is forwarded on the list for discussion purposes only. Facts are not protected by copyright, UNLESS there is some originality in the selection. An exhaustive list of facts CANNOT BE PROTECTED BY COPYRIGHT. On the other hand, one could impose CONTRACTUAL limitations to using data (unoriginal compilation of facts)... but not within the copyright framework.

This being said, I can get the major library association to support this action - in fact, I am working on a coalition of consumer/library/education institutions, and I hope to be able to provide documentation in the next few months... but in the interim, once a consensus is reached from your group, please contact me directly (I can't read all the posts on the list - no time) and we<ll discuss how we can get the library organisations on board.

Take care group - and congratulations for the awsome energy and work !
Olivier
PS. here is what I am working on these days:
<a href="http://www.booknetcanada.com/events/index.html" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.booknetcanada.com/events/index.html
(look at the panel at 4:15 on March 21st)

Many thanks! Merci et au plaisir!

Olivier Charbonneau
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Subject Librarian, Concordia University
Accountancy, Decision Sciences, Management of Information Systems
Phone: 514-848-2424 x7362

Email: [hidden email]
Blog: <a href="http://www.culturelibre.ca/" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.culturelibre.ca/
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Hugh McGuire wrote:

of course it's a civicaccess action ;-) !

actually thinking about this... and this is how I envision  
CivicAccess progressing... as a central place where the spokes of  
many different projects all join with a shared belief in free data  

access. but we really need the projects (some exist already, eg:  
<a href="http://howdtheyvote.ca" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">howdtheyvote.ca, <a href="http://openpolitics.ca" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
openpolitics.ca, <a href="http://netizen-news.ca" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">netizen-news.ca etc; some could be  
new initiatives of/inspired by civicaccess ... or just related to the  

mission).

h.




On Feb 9, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Tracey P. Lauriault wrote:

I think this is a great idea and I would really like it if could be
considered as as CivicAccess or COACID action.

For those who might be able to get something like this off the ground.
There is tons of great information here:

<a href="http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/CensusAction" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/CensusAction

It was an activity primarily aimed at the CENSUS however some of the
documentation can be used for the Free the Postal Code Data as well  
and
there was some good discussion.

I created a spot for people to collaborate here:
<a href="http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/Actions" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/Actions,  I did not know how you wanted to
call it or what the tagline should so edit away.



Hugh McGuire wrote:

I suggest in addition to data cracking/hacking work, we consider
writing an open letter to the government agencies & ministers,
opposition MPs, and journalists, and try to put some pressure on. And

get an online petition going (I don't think they do much, but they
give something for bloggers to link to). This should be accompanied
by a concerted attempt to get specific organizations to support the
project (NGOs & universities, but also, say, the Bloc, the NDP, maybe

even the now-oppositional Liberals).

perhaps a url? FLCP.ca ... Front de Liberation Code Postal ... it's
available! ;).

Again, this "tiny" little data project demonstrates so clearly the

dunderheadedness of Canada's govt data policies, in a way that many
people could understand.



_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
<a href="http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess- 
discuss_civicaccess.ca

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
<a href="http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess- 
discuss_civicaccess.ca

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
<a href="http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca" target="_blank">http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca

The Munroes

Re: front de liberation de codes postal

Wow, that was great…..is that where spokesperson comes from???

This is the best book…???...stream? that I’ve read in a long time.

What next?

Windsong

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of liss jeffrey
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 11:40 AM
To: civicaccess discuss
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] front de liberation de codes postal

On 2/9/07, Olivier Charbonneau <[hidden email]> wrote:

Many thanks! Merci et au plaisir!



Olivier Charbonneau

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Subject Librarian, Concordia University

Accountancy, Decision Sciences, Management of Information Systems

Phone: 514-848-2424 x7362



Email: [hidden email]

Blog: http://www.culturelibre.ca/

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Hugh McGuire wrote:

of course it's a civicaccess action ;-) !



actually thinking about this... and this is how I envision  

CivicAccess progressing... as a central place where the spokes of  

many different projects all join with a shared belief in free data



access. but we really need the projects (some exist already, eg:  

howdtheyvote.ca,

openpolitics.ca, netizen-news.ca etc; some could be  

new initiatives of/inspired by civicaccess ... or just related to the



mission).



h.









On Feb 9, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Tracey P. Lauriault wrote:

I think this is a great idea and I would really like it if could be

considered as as CivicAccess or COACID action.



For those who might be able to get something like this off the ground.

There is tons of great information here:



http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/CensusAction

It was an activity primarily aimed at the CENSUS however some of the

documentation can be used for the Free the Postal Code Data as well

and

there was some good discussion.

I created a spot for people to collaborate here:

http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/Actions,  I did not know how you wanted to

call it or what the tagline should so edit away.







Hugh McGuire wrote:

I suggest in addition to data cracking/hacking work, we consider

writing an open letter to the government agencies & ministers,

opposition MPs, and journalists, and try to put some pressure on. And

get an online petition going (I don't think they do much, but they

give something for bloggers to link to). This should be accompanied

by a concerted attempt to get specific organizations to support the

project (NGOs & universities, but also, say, the Bloc, the NDP, maybe



even the now-oppositional Liberals).



perhaps a url? FLCP.ca ... Front de Liberation Code Postal ... it's

available! ;).



Again, this "tiny" little data project demonstrates so clearly the



dunderheadedness of Canada's govt data policies, in a way that many

people could understand.







_______________________________________________

CivicAccess-discuss mailing list

[hidden email]

[hidden email]

http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess- 

discuss_civicaccess.ca

_______________________________________________

CivicAccess-discuss mailing list

[hidden email]

http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess- 

discuss_civicaccess.ca

_______________________________________________

CivicAccess-discuss mailing list

[hidden email]

http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca

Stéphane Zagar

Re: front de liberation de codes postaux

In reply to this post by liss jeffrey

Interesting week end !

Liss : there's also a kind of "They work for you" here : http://www.howdtheyvote.ca/ I'm sure Cory (the founder of this website) would be happy to have help and to see hansards more accessible !

For my part : I got banned from Yahoo Maps after I retrieved less than 300 postal codes with there coordinates :) Fortunately, thanks to Google Earth, I found a way to retrieve postal codes faster (3 codes / sec) and without any ban after 1 hour and a half of working. But it's only 20 000 codes (with only 5000 of them valid) on potentially 12 millions (hum). I'll see if I have the courage to continue this... quest.

I also wrote a request for an access to information to Natural Resources Canada. Probably it won't work but who knows...

I'll try to put some things that I did on the wiki tomorrow. Concerning the screen scrapping I wonder if I should explain how I did exactly, what to think ?

Steph

liss jeffrey wrote:

Yes i support this also, and will take the idea to our New Democracy Workshop on Monday when we next meet ( netizen-news.ca has details).

Our projects, including ecommons/agora ( ecommons.net ), and bydesign-elab.net include technical experts and developers as well as community and policy experts and producers. The many sister sites we have created are designed to be constellation sites (meaning no one main body), orbiting under the eLab slogan ' we exist not to reinvent the wheel, but to connect the spokes.'
So you could say that we are all operating in a kind of parallel public interest space :)

In line with our strategic approach, not reinventing wheels, and this civic access idea, I can contact the existing Data Liberation Front, which has members from Stats Can. I am sure they could offer some solid advice on how to make this work.
We could each act in our respective areas of competence, and report into the wiki and on our own sites.
Previously while helping David Mason with his project to make a Canadian they work for you site ( the original is British), I arranged an Ottawa meeting with a spokesperson for Hansard, as David ( and his group) wanted to reuse Hansard data.
That project alas fell victim to David ( and Stefan's) time crunch, but this idea would I am sure enjoy the same support from our various associates.

So we are on board with this idea and can help.

Liss Jeffrey, PhD
Diector, McLuhan global research network
On 2/9/07, Olivier Charbonneau <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Civic Access !

I am sorry for not responding to these emails - many fires to take care of (and many more to start). First off, I am not a lawyer and this is forwarded on the list for discussion purposes only. Facts are not protected by copyright, UNLESS there is some originality in the selection. An exhaustive list of facts CANNOT BE PROTECTED BY COPYRIGHT. On the other hand, one could impose CONTRACTUAL limitations to using data (unoriginal compilation of facts)... but not within the copyright framework.

This being said, I can get the major library association to support this action - in fact, I am working on a coalition of consumer/library/education institutions, and I hope to be able to provide documentation in the next few months... but in the interim, once a consensus is reached from your group, please contact me directly (I can't read all the posts on the list - no time) and we<ll discuss how we can get the library organisations on board.

Take care group - and congratulations for the awsome energy and work !
Olivier
PS. here is what I am working on these days:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.booknetcanada.com/events/index.html" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.booknetcanada.com/events/index.html
(look at the panel at 4:15 on March 21st)
Many thanks! Merci et au plaisir!

Olivier Charbonneau
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Subject Librarian, Concordia University
Accountancy, Decision Sciences, Management of Information Systems
Phone: 514-848-2424 x7362

Email: [hidden email]
Blog: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.culturelibre.ca/"
 target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.culturelibre.ca/
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Hugh McGuire wrote:

of course it's a civicaccess action ;-) ! actually thinking about this... and this is how I envision CivicAccess progressing... as a central place where the spokes of many different projects all join with a shared belief in free data access. but we really need the projects (some exist already, eg: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://howdtheyvote.ca" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">howdtheyvote.ca, <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://openpolitics.ca" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> openpolitics.ca, <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://netizen-news.ca" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">netizen-news.ca etc; some could be new initiatives of/inspired by civicaccess ... or just related to the mission). h. On Feb 9, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Tracey P. Lauriault wrote:

I think this is a great idea and I would really like it if could be considered as as CivicAccess or COACID action. For those who might be able to get something like this off the ground. There is tons of great information here: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/CensusAction" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/CensusAction It was an activity primarily aimed at the CENSUS however some of the documentation can be used for the Free the Postal Code Data as well and there was some good discussion. I created a spot for people to collaborate here: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/Actions" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/Actions, I did not know how you wanted to call it or what the tagline should so edit away. Hugh McGuire wrote:

I suggest in addition to data cracking/hacking work, we consider writing an open letter to the government agencies & ministers, opposition MPs, and journalists, and try to put some pressure on. And get an online petition going (I don't think they do much, but they give something for bloggers to link to). This should be accompanied by a concerted attempt to get specific organizations to support the project (NGOs & universities, but also, say, the Bloc, the NDP, maybe even the now-oppositional Liberals). perhaps a url? FLCP.ca ... Front de Liberation Code Postal ... it's available! ;). Again, this "tiny" little data project demonstrates so clearly the dunderheadedness of Canada's govt data policies, in a way that many people could understand. _______________________________________________ CivicAccess-discuss mailing list [hidden email] <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess- discuss_civicaccess.ca

_______________________________________________ CivicAccess-discuss mailing list [hidden email] <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess- discuss_civicaccess.ca

_______________________________________________ CivicAccess-discuss mailing list [hidden email] <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca
_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
<a moz-do-not-send="true" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca" target="_blank">http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca
_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca
  

liss jeffrey

Re: front de liberation de codes postaux

Hi Stephane:

Yes I think there should be a write up of what you did and perhaps others might also contribute.
Let's anticipate here: the ban by Google Earth, would that be because they did not want a mass mailer or spammer using their service to harvest such info? Do they have policies against scraping and are there reasons?
Is that what's going on with Stats Can? I saw no reference to this in anyone's posts and I sincerely do not know.
This is very different, obviously, from cost recovery.

David Mason and I had a very good response from Hansard ( but again, we did not go beyond the fact finding stage because he got too busy and my project is civic engagement in democratic life, not scraping and coding the scraping per se. I am not looking for extra projects as I am quite busy ( as is everyone else,) but David as you know Stephane , is a lead developer with our citizen engagement platforms including the foreign policy dialogue, and a director of the eCommons/agora, and mutual support is how we always operate.
Scraping is a means not an end and it's that end of shaping civic engagement ( not only access) that I am interested in and competent to produce. One of many rules in our byDesign eLab was always 'no geek ghettos' meaning that we all had to find ways to reciprocate and participate in one another's universes, a flattening of the divide between developers and producers you might say.
I do not start from a position of thinking government is evil or incompetent ( not saying others do, but it is a tempting position and I think mistaken), and we will be stronger IMO if as you suggest Stephane we consolidate what we propose to do, the reasons why we want to do this ( as is happening now in civic access wiki and on list), summarize what people have tried to do so far and the outcomes, give a list of successful projects elsewhere ( UK, USA, elsewhere??), establish our legitimacy and intentions, and then go find out how to remove the obstacles to democratic action.

I am doubtless missing lots, and while hardly naive may well be overly optimistic, but the way in can be through the front door and not just the back door. In any event (1) to get genuine support we have to try these steps.
In any event (2) the alternative has not yet produced the result we seek.
One plan is to have a strategy ready by Feb. 24 so that's 2 weeks to get the arguments assembled.
Other ideas?
DrJ

On 2/10/07, Stéphane Zagar <[hidden email]> wrote:

Interesting week end !

Liss : there's also a kind of "They work for you" here : <a href="http://www.howdtheyvote.ca/" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.howdtheyvote.ca/ I'm sure Cory (the founder of this website) would be happy to have help and to see hansards more accessible !

For my part : I got banned from Yahoo Maps after I retrieved less than 300 postal codes with there coordinates :) Fortunately, thanks to Google Earth, I found a way to retrieve postal codes faster (3 codes / sec) and without any ban after 1 hour and a half of working. But it's only 20 000 codes (with only 5000 of them valid) on potentially 12 millions (hum). I'll see if I have the courage to continue this... quest.

I also wrote a request for an access to information to Natural Resources Canada. Probably it won't work but who knows...

I'll try to put some things that I did on the wiki tomorrow. Concerning the screen scrapping I wonder if I should explain how I did exactly, what to think ?

Steph

liss jeffrey wrote:
Yes i support this also, and will take the idea to our New Democracy Workshop on Monday when we next meet ( <a href="http://netizen-news.ca" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">netizen-news.ca has details).

Our projects, including ecommons/agora ( <a href="http://ecommons.net" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">ecommons.net ), and <a href="http://bydesign-elab.net" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> bydesign-elab.net include technical experts and developers as well as community and policy experts and producers. The many sister sites we have created are designed to be constellation sites (meaning no one main body), orbiting under the eLab slogan ' we exist not to reinvent the wheel, but to connect the spokes.'
So you could say that we are all operating in a kind of parallel public interest space :)

In line with our strategic approach, not reinventing wheels, and this civic access idea, I can contact the existing Data Liberation Front, which has members from Stats Can. I am sure they could offer some solid advice on how to make this work.
We could each act in our respective areas of competence, and report into the wiki and on our own sites.
Previously while helping David Mason with his project to make a Canadian they work for you site ( the original is British), I arranged an Ottawa meeting with a spokesperson for Hansard, as David ( and his group) wanted to reuse Hansard data.
That project alas fell victim to David ( and Stefan's) time crunch, but this idea would I am sure enjoy the same support from our various associates.

So we are on board with this idea and can help.

Liss Jeffrey, PhD
Diector, McLuhan global research network
On 2/9/07, Olivier Charbonneau <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Civic Access !

I am sorry for not responding to these emails - many fires to take care of (and many more to start). First off, I am not a lawyer and this is forwarded on the list for discussion purposes only. Facts are not protected by copyright, UNLESS there is some originality in the selection. An exhaustive list of facts CANNOT BE PROTECTED BY COPYRIGHT. On the other hand, one could impose CONTRACTUAL limitations to using data (unoriginal compilation of facts)... but not within the copyright framework.

This being said, I can get the major library association to support this action - in fact, I am working on a coalition of consumer/library/education institutions, and I hope to be able to provide documentation in the next few months... but in the interim, once a consensus is reached from your group, please contact me directly (I can't read all the posts on the list - no time) and we<ll discuss how we can get the library organisations on board.

Take care group - and congratulations for the awsome energy and work !
Olivier
PS. here is what I am working on these days:
<a href="http://www.booknetcanada.com/events/index.html" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.booknetcanada.com/events/index.html
(look at the panel at 4:15 on March 21st)
Many thanks! Merci et au plaisir!

Olivier Charbonneau
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Subject Librarian, Concordia University
Accountancy, Decision Sciences, Management of Information Systems

Phone: 514-848-2424 x7362

Email: [hidden email]
Blog: <a href="http://www.culturelibre.ca/" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.culturelibre.ca/
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Hugh McGuire wrote:

of course it's a civicaccess action ;-) !

actually thinking about this... and this is how I envision
CivicAccess progressing... as a central place where the spokes of
many different projects all join with a shared belief in free data

access. but we really need the projects (some exist already, eg:
<a href="http://howdtheyvote.ca" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">howdtheyvote.ca, <a href="http://openpolitics.ca" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> openpolitics.ca, <a href="http://netizen-news.ca" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">netizen-news.ca etc; some could be
new initiatives of/inspired by civicaccess ... or just related to the

mission).

h.

On Feb 9, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Tracey P. Lauriault wrote:

I think this is a great idea and I would really like it if could be
considered as as CivicAccess or COACID action.

For those who might be able to get something like this off the ground.
There is tons of great information here:

<a href="http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/CensusAction" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/CensusAction It was an activity primarily aimed at the CENSUS however some of the documentation can be used for the Free the Postal Code Data as well and there was some good discussion. I created a spot for people to collaborate here: <a href="http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/Actions" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/Actions, I did not know how you wanted to
call it or what the tagline should so edit away.

Hugh McGuire wrote:

I suggest in addition to data cracking/hacking work, we consider
writing an open letter to the government agencies & ministers,
opposition MPs, and journalists, and try to put some pressure on. And

get an online petition going (I don't think they do much, but they
give something for bloggers to link to). This should be accompanied
by a concerted attempt to get specific organizations to support the
project (NGOs & universities, but also, say, the Bloc, the NDP, maybe

even the now-oppositional Liberals).

perhaps a url? FLCP.ca ... Front de Liberation Code Postal ... it's
available! ;).

Again, this "tiny" little data project demonstrates so clearly the

dunderheadedness of Canada's govt data policies, in a way that many
people could understand.

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email] <a href="http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-
discuss_civicaccess.ca

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email] <a href="http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-
discuss_civicaccess.ca

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email] <a href="http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca
_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
<a href="http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca
_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
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<a href="http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca

  
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CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
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<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca" target="_blank">http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca

Michael Lenczner

Re: front de liberation de codes postaux

responses inline.

On 2/11/07, liss jeffrey <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi Stephane:
>
> Yes I think there should be a write up of what you did and perhaps others
> might also contribute.
> Let's anticipate here: the ban by Google Earth, would that be because they
> did not want a mass mailer or spammer using their service to harvest such
> info?

I think they're trying to prevent abuse of their computing resources
and they want the value to be on their system, not on a competing
system. So that means keeping the data to themselves. They pay lots
of money to assemble their setup, and don't really want poachers.

> Do they have policies against scraping and are there reasons?
> Is that what's going on with Stats Can? I saw no reference to this in
> anyone's posts and I sincerely do not know.
> This is very different, obviously, from cost recovery.
>
I don't think that's the issue with Stats Can

> David Mason and I had a very good response from Hansard ( but again, we did
> not go beyond the fact finding stage because he got too busy and my project
> is civic engagement in democratic life, not scraping and coding the scraping
> per se. I am not looking for extra projects as I am quite busy ( as is
> everyone else,) but David as you know Stephane , is a lead developer with
> our citizen engagement platforms including the foreign policy dialogue, and
> a director of the eCommons/agora, and mutual support is how we always
> operate.
> Scraping is a means not an end and it's that end of shaping civic engagement
> ( not only access) that I am interested in and competent to produce. One of
> many rules in our byDesign eLab was always 'no geek ghettos' meaning that we
> all had to find ways to reciprocate and participate in one another's
> universes, a flattening of the divide between developers and producers you
> might say.
> I do not start from a position of thinking government is evil or incompetent
> ( not saying others do, but it is a tempting position and I think mistaken),
> and we will be stronger IMO if as you suggest Stephane we consolidate what
> we propose to do, the reasons why we want to do this ( as is happening now
> in civic access wiki and on list), summarize what people have tried to do so
> far and the outcomes, give a list of successful projects elsewhere ( UK,
> USA, elsewhere??), establish our legitimacy and intentions, and then go find
> out how to remove the obstacles to democratic action.
>

I'm not sure if you're specifically refering to the subject - freeing
postal code info - or the more general open civic goals.

But in general that's why we created Civic Access. To have a space to
do that work. We've already done a pretty good job on some of it.

see:
http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/ - for proposal and reasons.

http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/WhatIsCivicData

http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/Resources - a place for people to list
sources of public data in Canada on a per provice and per city basis.

http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/Tech - definition of technical terms that
pop up when talking about civic info projects.

http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/ProjetsCiviques - listing of civic projects
(doesn't have any international ones yet, but someone could add them).

http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/Launch/PublicAnnouncement - drafting of
public letter.

> I am doubtless missing lots, and while hardly naive may well be overly
> optimistic, but the way in can be through the front door and not just the
> back door. In any event (1) to get genuine support we have to try these
> steps.
> In any event (2) the alternative has not yet produced the result we seek.
> One plan is to have a strategy ready by Feb. 24 so that's 2 weeks to get the
> arguments assembled.

If you're specifically referring to liberating postal code info, I
invite people to use the wiki to do this work. There's already good
content there. And what I like about it is that CivicAccess is
started by no one person or organization. So there shouldn't be any
problems with people feeling like they are contributing to "someone
else's" project - which can sometimes reduce people's interest to get
involved.
I
> Other ideas?

I guess I'm just wondering what if you're looking for content
specifically about the postal codes, or about civic projects in
general. I'm willing to help gather some resources or write something
up about similar efforts elsewhere in the world and I'm sure that we
could write up a public letter asking the feds for electoral / postal
code info, but I'm not sure if that's what you're looking for. Also,
the strategy you're talking about. I'm unclear who it's for.

sorry for the basic questions. I'm interested though.

Mike

> DrJ
>
>
>
<snip>

Hugh McGuire

Re: front de liberation de codes postaux

just on the postal code thing, I propose we do 3 things:

1. agree on a text of a letter, see here for an editable draft:
http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/PostalCodes

NOTE: i think it needs a bit of context, ie why do we want this data
now?

2. make a list of groups who we:
a) can ask to support this letter (ie individual & institutional co-
signers)
b) can target to send this letter (ie government reps, newspapers etc)

3. make a web presence or online petition (any thoughts on this?) ...
either on the civic access page or elsewhere?

On Feb 11, 2007, at 6:11 PM, Michael Lenczner wrote:

> responses inline.
>
> On 2/11/07, liss jeffrey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi Stephane:
>>
>> Yes I think there should be a write up of what you did and perhaps
>> others
>> might also contribute.
>> Let's anticipate here: the ban by Google Earth, would that be
>> because they
>> did not want a mass mailer or spammer using their service to
>> harvest such
>> info?
>
> I think they're trying to prevent abuse of their computing resources
> and they want the value to be on their system, not on a competing
> system. So that means keeping the data to themselves. They pay lots
> of money to assemble their setup, and don't really want poachers.
>
>> Do they have policies against scraping and are there reasons?
>> Is that what's going on with Stats Can? I saw no reference to this in
>> anyone's posts and I sincerely do not know.
>> This is very different, obviously, from cost recovery.
>>
> I don't think that's the issue with Stats Can
>
>> David Mason and I had a very good response from Hansard ( but
>> again, we did
>> not go beyond the fact finding stage because he got too busy and
>> my project
>> is civic engagement in democratic life, not scraping and coding
>> the scraping
>> per se. I am not looking for extra projects as I am quite busy
>> ( as is
>> everyone else,) but David as you know Stephane , is a lead
>> developer with
>> our citizen engagement platforms including the foreign policy
>> dialogue, and
>> a director of the eCommons/agora, and mutual support is how we always
>> operate.
>> Scraping is a means not an end and it's that end of shaping civic
>> engagement
>> ( not only access) that I am interested in and competent to
>> produce. One of
>> many rules in our byDesign eLab was always 'no geek ghettos'
>> meaning that we
>> all had to find ways to reciprocate and participate in one another's
>> universes, a flattening of the divide between developers and
>> producers you
>> might say.
>> I do not start from a position of thinking government is evil or
>> incompetent
>> ( not saying others do, but it is a tempting position and I think
>> mistaken),
>> and we will be stronger IMO if as you suggest Stephane we
>> consolidate what
>> we propose to do, the reasons why we want to do this ( as is
>> happening now
>> in civic access wiki and on list), summarize what people have
>> tried to do so
>> far and the outcomes, give a list of successful projects elsewhere
>> ( UK,
>> USA, elsewhere??), establish our legitimacy and intentions, and
>> then go find
>> out how to remove the obstacles to democratic action.
>>
> I'm not sure if you're specifically refering to the subject - freeing
> postal code info - or the more general open civic goals.
>
> But in general that's why we created Civic Access. To have a space to
> do that work. We've already done a pretty good job on some of it.
>
> see:
> http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/ - for proposal and reasons.
>
> http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/WhatIsCivicData
>
> http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/Resources - a place for people to list
> sources of public data in Canada on a per provice and per city basis.
>
> http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/Tech - definition of technical terms that
> pop up when talking about civic info projects.
>
> http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/ProjetsCiviques - listing of civic projects
> (doesn't have any international ones yet, but someone could add them).
>
> http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/Launch/PublicAnnouncement - drafting of
> public letter.
>
>> I am doubtless missing lots, and while hardly naive may well be
>> overly
>> optimistic, but the way in can be through the front door and not
>> just the
>> back door. In any event (1) to get genuine support we have to try
>> these
>> steps.
>> In any event (2) the alternative has not yet produced the result
>> we seek.
>> One plan is to have a strategy ready by Feb. 24 so that's 2 weeks
>> to get the
>> arguments assembled.
>
> If you're specifically referring to liberating postal code info, I
> invite people to use the wiki to do this work. There's already good
> content there. And what I like about it is that CivicAccess is
> started by no one person or organization. So there shouldn't be any
> problems with people feeling like they are contributing to "someone
> else's" project - which can sometimes reduce people's interest to get
> involved.
> I
>> Other ideas?
>
> I guess I'm just wondering what if you're looking for content
> specifically about the postal codes, or about civic projects in
> general. I'm willing to help gather some resources or write something
> up about similar efforts elsewhere in the world and I'm sure that we
> could write up a public letter asking the feds for electoral / postal
> code info, but I'm not sure if that's what you're looking for. Also,
> the strategy you're talking about. I'm unclear who it's for.
>
> sorry for the basic questions. I'm interested though.
>
> Mike
>
>> DrJ
>>
>>
>>
> <snip>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-
> discuss_civicaccess.ca

Michael Lenczner

Re: front de liberation de codes postaux

On 2/11/07, Hugh McGuire <[hidden email]> wrote:

> just on the postal code thing, I propose we do 3 things:
>
> 1. agree on a text of a letter, see here for an editable draft:
> http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/PostalCodes
>
> NOTE: i think it needs a bit of context, ie why do we want this data
> now?
>
> 2. make a list of groups who we:
> a) can ask to support this letter (ie individual & institutional co-
> signers)
> b) can target to send this letter (ie government reps, newspapers etc)
>
> 3. make a web presence or online petition (any thoughts on this?) ...
> either on the civic access page or elsewhere?

Looks good. except I don't think we need to do 3 on a wiki page cuz
we'll end up adding 70-100 groups. We can each go off and find
support from our networks and then compile a list of groups who have
agreed to back it. If there's any missing networks of groups, we fill
in then.

Also, we'll need it translated if you want it to be a national thing.

The letter is a great start! I'll see if I can contribute anything
tomorrow. Tracey is also pretty great at those kinds of things. We
can definitely get her to go over it. :-)

OnlineRights Canada can whip up a petition for us. But I think they
should clearly identify it as a CivicAccess push.
http://www.onlinerights.ca/

Once the letter is finished, we can contact them and ask them to make
a campaign for this? Hows that sound?

<snip>

Stéphane Zagar

Re: front de liberation de codes postaux

I added on the wiki page for postal codes a piece of letter I sent to Natural Resources Canada (they do the Canada Atlas and if someone has postal codes, it should be their business). I ask for the list of postal codes and corresponding coordinates and ridings based on the information act (I know, it's stupid)

Steph

Michael Lenczner wrote:

On 2/11/07, Hugh McGuire [hidden email] wrote:

just on the postal code thing, I propose we do 3 things:

1. agree on a text of a letter, see here for an editable draft:
http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/PostalCodes

NOTE: i think it needs a bit of context, ie why do we want this data
now?

2. make a list of groups who we:
a) can ask to support this letter (ie individual & institutional co-
signers)
b) can target to send this letter (ie government reps, newspapers etc)

3. make a web presence or online petition (any thoughts on this?) ...
either on the civic access page or elsewhere?


Looks good.  except I don't think we need to do 3 on a wiki page cuz
we'll end up adding 70-100 groups.  We can each go off and find
support from our networks and then compile a list of groups who have
agreed to back it.  If there's any missing networks of groups, we fill
in then.

Also, we'll need it translated if you want it to be a national thing.

The letter is a great start!  I'll see if I can contribute anything
tomorrow.  Tracey is also pretty great at those kinds of things.  We
can definitely get her to go over it. :-)

OnlineRights Canada can whip up a petition for us.  But I think they
should clearly identify it as a CivicAccess push.
http://www.onlinerights.ca/

Once the letter is finished, we can contact them and ask them to make
a campaign for this?  Hows that sound?

<snip>

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca

Elli MacDonald

Re: front de liberation de codes postal

In reply to this post by Tracey P. Lauriault-2

Hi folks,

I have been following (trying to follow :-))your discussions, which have
been very educational for me. I'm a bit of a newbie in this area and am
looking for some advice if possible.

I work for an environmental not-for-profit organisation on a community-based
GIS project. The Enviroplace website provides data and discussions on a
range of environmental topics, for the purpose of educating communities on
the state of their local environment and to share environmental data with
local communities. We want the site to be an example of how public data
should be freely available and presented in a way, which allows local
communities to be empowered to become involved in the environment around
them and the decisions being made on their behalf.

To make a long story short! We have a mapping application that was developed
for us by a consultant a few years ago, based on open source software, which
allows the users to explore a large variety of different environmental,
standardized, data sets (government, industry, conservation authorities,
local health units, etc). The site has so far been successful, however, the
site is a pilot and we would like to develop it further. Open source
capability has obviously improved considerably since our application was
developed, so we would like to work with someone to improve the present
application or, if necessary, start afresh and develop a new open source
application. Either way I was hoping you may be able to able to give me
some ideas or advise me on someone who would be interested in helping us.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Elli
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tracey P.
Lauriault
Sent: February 9, 2007 10:56 AM
To: civicaccess discuss
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] front de liberation de codes postal

Excellent!

For myself and others who are just learning how these things all come
together i hope we can all leave a few breadcrumbs on the wiki soz we
can find our way around and build on that knowledge later and for other
initiatives.
t

Hugh McGuire wrote:

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca

Tracey P. Lauriault-2

Re: front de liberation de codes postal

If would be great if you could send us a link to your site and also
explain the nature of your tool.

Elli MacDonald wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> I have been following (trying to follow :-))your discussions, which have
> been very educational for me. I'm a bit of a newbie in this area and am
> looking for some advice if possible.
>
> I work for an environmental not-for-profit organisation on a community-based
> GIS project. The Enviroplace website provides data and discussions on a
> range of environmental topics, for the purpose of educating communities on
> the state of their local environment and to share environmental data with
> local communities. We want the site to be an example of how public data
> should be freely available and presented in a way, which allows local
> communities to be empowered to become involved in the environment around
> them and the decisions being made on their behalf.
>
> To make a long story short! We have a mapping application that was developed
> for us by a consultant a few years ago, based on open source software, which
> allows the users to explore a large variety of different environmental,
> standardized, data sets (government, industry, conservation authorities,
> local health units, etc). The site has so far been successful, however, the
> site is a pilot and we would like to develop it further. Open source
> capability has obviously improved considerably since our application was
> developed, so we would like to work with someone to improve the present
> application or, if necessary, start afresh and develop a new open source
> application. Either way I was hoping you may be able to able to give me
> some ideas or advise me on someone who would be interested in helping us.
>
> Look forward to hearing from you.
>
> Elli
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tracey P.
> Lauriault
> Sent: February 9, 2007 10:56 AM
> To: civicaccess discuss
> Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] front de liberation de codes postal
>
> Excellent!
>
> For myself and others who are just learning how these things all come
> together i hope we can all leave a few breadcrumbs on the wiki soz we
> can find our way around and build on that knowledge later and for other
> initiatives.
> t
>
> Hugh McGuire wrote:
>
>> of course it's a civicaccess action ;-) !
>>
>> actually thinking about this... and this is how I envision
>> CivicAccess progressing... as a central place where the spokes of
>> many different projects all join with a shared belief in free data
>> access. but we really need the projects (some exist already, eg:
>> howdtheyvote.ca, openpolitics.ca, netizen-news.ca etc; some could be
>> new initiatives of/inspired by civicaccess ... or just related to the
>> mission).
>>
>> h.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 9, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Tracey P. Lauriault wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> I think this is a great idea and I would really like it if could be
>>> considered as as CivicAccess or COACID action.
>>>
>>> For those who might be able to get something like this off the ground.
>>> There is tons of great information here:
>>> http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/CensusAction
>>>
>>> It was an activity primarily aimed at the CENSUS however some of the
>>> documentation can be used for the Free the Postal Code Data as well
>>> and
>>> there was some good discussion.
>>>
>>> I created a spot for people to collaborate here:
>>> http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/Actions, I did not know how you wanted to
>>> call it or what the tagline should so edit away.
>>>
>>>
>>> Hugh McGuire wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I suggest in addition to data cracking/hacking work, we consider
>>>> writing an open letter to the government agencies & ministers,
>>>> opposition MPs, and journalists, and try to put some pressure on. And
>>>> get an online petition going (I don't think they do much, but they
>>>> give something for bloggers to link to). This should be accompanied
>>>> by a concerted attempt to get specific organizations to support the
>>>> project (NGOs & universities, but also, say, the Bloc, the NDP, maybe
>>>> even the now-oppositional Liberals).
>>>>
>>>> perhaps a url? FLCP.ca ... Front de Liberation Code Postal ... it's
>>>> available! ;).
>>>>
>>>> Again, this "tiny" little data project demonstrates so clearly the
>>>> dunderheadedness of Canada's govt data policies, in a way that many
>>>> people could understand.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-
>>>> discuss_civicaccess.ca
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-
>>> discuss_civicaccess.ca
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca
>
>
>

Robin Millette

Re: front de liberation de codes postal

On 2/16/07, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:
> If would be great if you could send us a link to your site and also
> explain the nature of your tool.

I'm guessing this is it, but would too like to know more.
http://pprobe.corefusion.net:8081/Apps/Envirobrain?Topic=SARNIA&IP=pprobe.corefusion.net&Wid=1024&Hgt=768

> > application. Either way I was hoping you may be able to able to give me
> > some ideas or advise me on someone who would be interested in helping us.

I'm available :) Contact me off-list, thanks.

--
Robin 'oqp' Millette : http://rym.waglo.com/

Elli MacDonald

Re: front de liberation de codes postal

In reply to this post by Tracey P. Lauriault-2

Whoops sorry - the link is www.enviroplace.ca .

The GIS application on the site has a number of different data sets
(National Pollutant Release Inventory data, census of agriculture,
socio-economic data, beach status, waste, local industry air and water
pollutant release data ...) which can be mapped, graphed and tabulated. The
application was initially developed for the graphing function, so that the
public could really get into the data. The mapping part came later and is
definitely not as functional as the graphing tool. We would like to make the
application more user-friendly and make more data sets available.
Unfortunately the person who was our data management mastermind is no longer
with us - so this is an area where we are looking for help also.

We started the project in Sarnia due to the chemical industry there but we
are planning to extend the scope geographically.

Thank you,

Elli

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tracey P.
Lauriault
Sent: February 16, 2007 11:22 AM
To: civicaccess discuss
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] front de liberation de codes postal

If would be great if you could send us a link to your site and also
explain the nature of your tool.

Elli MacDonald wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I have been following (trying to follow :-))your discussions, which have
> been very educational for me. I'm a bit of a newbie in this area and am
> looking for some advice if possible.
>
> I work for an environmental not-for-profit organisation on a
community-based
> GIS project. The Enviroplace website provides data and discussions on a
> range of environmental topics, for the purpose of educating communities on
> the state of their local environment and to share environmental data with
> local communities. We want the site to be an example of how public data
> should be freely available and presented in a way, which allows local
> communities to be empowered to become involved in the environment around
> them and the decisions being made on their behalf.
>
> To make a long story short! We have a mapping application that was
developed
> for us by a consultant a few years ago, based on open source software,
which
> allows the users to explore a large variety of different environmental,
> standardized, data sets (government, industry, conservation authorities,
> local health units, etc). The site has so far been successful, however,
the

> site is a pilot and we would like to develop it further. Open source
> capability has obviously improved considerably since our application was
> developed, so we would like to work with someone to improve the present
> application or, if necessary, start afresh and develop a new open source
> application. Either way I was hoping you may be able to able to give me
> some ideas or advise me on someone who would be interested in helping us.
>
> Look forward to hearing from you.
>
> Elli
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tracey P.
> Lauriault
> Sent: February 9, 2007 10:56 AM
> To: civicaccess discuss
> Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] front de liberation de codes postal
>
> Excellent!
>
> For myself and others who are just learning how these things all come
> together i hope we can all leave a few breadcrumbs on the wiki soz we
> can find our way around and build on that knowledge later and for other
> initiatives.
> t
>
> Hugh McGuire wrote:
>
>> of course it's a civicaccess action ;-) !
>>
>> actually thinking about this... and this is how I envision
>> CivicAccess progressing... as a central place where the spokes of
>> many different projects all join with a shared belief in free data
>> access. but we really need the projects (some exist already, eg:
>> howdtheyvote.ca, openpolitics.ca, netizen-news.ca etc; some could be
>> new initiatives of/inspired by civicaccess ... or just related to the
>> mission).
>>
>> h.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 9, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Tracey P. Lauriault wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> I think this is a great idea and I would really like it if could be
>>> considered as as CivicAccess or COACID action.
>>>
>>> For those who might be able to get something like this off the ground.
>>> There is tons of great information here:
>>> http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/CensusAction
>>>
>>> It was an activity primarily aimed at the CENSUS however some of the
>>> documentation can be used for the Free the Postal Code Data as well
>>> and
>>> there was some good discussion.
>>>
>>> I created a spot for people to collaborate here:
>>> http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/Actions, I did not know how you wanted to
>>> call it or what the tagline should so edit away.
>>>
>>>
>>> Hugh McGuire wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I suggest in addition to data cracking/hacking work, we consider
>>>> writing an open letter to the government agencies & ministers,
>>>> opposition MPs, and journalists, and try to put some pressure on. And
>>>> get an online petition going (I don't think they do much, but they
>>>> give something for bloggers to link to). This should be accompanied
>>>> by a concerted attempt to get specific organizations to support the
>>>> project (NGOs & universities, but also, say, the Bloc, the NDP, maybe
>>>> even the now-oppositional Liberals).
>>>>
>>>> perhaps a url? FLCP.ca ... Front de Liberation Code Postal ... it's
>>>> available! ;).
>>>>
>>>> Again, this "tiny" little data project demonstrates so clearly the
>>>> dunderheadedness of Canada's govt data policies, in a way that many
>>>> people could understand.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-
>>>> discuss_civicaccess.ca
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-
>>> discuss_civicaccess.ca
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca
>
>
>

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca

Tracey P. Lauriault-2

Re: front de liberation de codes postal

Some interesting work!

Do you still have contacts with the consultants? Also did they leave
any documentation kicking around about the tool? I like the data sets
you have up there. I can gladly help you with a few data requirements,
metadata and references etc. that i see missing here. If and when you
are ready for that kind of information let me know, there are a few
things you could get whomever decides to work with you to add those
pretty easily.

Cheers
t

Elli MacDonald wrote:

> Whoops sorry - the link is www.enviroplace.ca .
>
> The GIS application on the site has a number of different data sets
> (National Pollutant Release Inventory data, census of agriculture,
> socio-economic data, beach status, waste, local industry air and water
> pollutant release data ...) which can be mapped, graphed and tabulated. The
> application was initially developed for the graphing function, so that the
> public could really get into the data. The mapping part came later and is
> definitely not as functional as the graphing tool. We would like to make the
> application more user-friendly and make more data sets available.
> Unfortunately the person who was our data management mastermind is no longer
> with us - so this is an area where we are looking for help also.
>
> We started the project in Sarnia due to the chemical industry there but we
> are planning to extend the scope geographically.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Elli
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tracey P.
> Lauriault
> Sent: February 16, 2007 11:22 AM
> To: civicaccess discuss
> Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] front de liberation de codes postal
>
> If would be great if you could send us a link to your site and also
> explain the nature of your tool.
>
>
> Elli MacDonald wrote:
>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I have been following (trying to follow :-))your discussions, which have
>> been very educational for me. I'm a bit of a newbie in this area and am
>> looking for some advice if possible.
>>
>> I work for an environmental not-for-profit organisation on a
>>
> community-based
>
>> GIS project. The Enviroplace website provides data and discussions on a
>> range of environmental topics, for the purpose of educating communities on
>> the state of their local environment and to share environmental data with
>> local communities. We want the site to be an example of how public data
>> should be freely available and presented in a way, which allows local
>> communities to be empowered to become involved in the environment around
>> them and the decisions being made on their behalf.
>>
>> To make a long story short! We have a mapping application that was
>>
> developed
>
>> for us by a consultant a few years ago, based on open source software,
>>
> which
>
>> allows the users to explore a large variety of different environmental,
>> standardized, data sets (government, industry, conservation authorities,
>> local health units, etc). The site has so far been successful, however,
>>
> the
>
>> site is a pilot and we would like to develop it further. Open source
>> capability has obviously improved considerably since our application was
>> developed, so we would like to work with someone to improve the present
>> application or, if necessary, start afresh and develop a new open source
>> application. Either way I was hoping you may be able to able to give me
>> some ideas or advise me on someone who would be interested in helping us.
>>
>> Look forward to hearing from you.
>>
>> Elli
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tracey P.
>> Lauriault
>> Sent: February 9, 2007 10:56 AM
>> To: civicaccess discuss
>> Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] front de liberation de codes postal
>>
>> Excellent!
>>
>> For myself and others who are just learning how these things all come
>> together i hope we can all leave a few breadcrumbs on the wiki soz we
>> can find our way around and build on that knowledge later and for other
>> initiatives.
>> t
>>
>> Hugh McGuire wrote:
>>
>>
>>> of course it's a civicaccess action ;-) !
>>>
>>> actually thinking about this... and this is how I envision
>>> CivicAccess progressing... as a central place where the spokes of
>>> many different projects all join with a shared belief in free data
>>> access. but we really need the projects (some exist already, eg:
>>> howdtheyvote.ca, openpolitics.ca, netizen-news.ca etc; some could be
>>> new initiatives of/inspired by civicaccess ... or just related to the
>>> mission).
>>>
>>> h.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 9, 2007, at 10:34 AM, Tracey P. Lauriault wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I think this is a great idea and I would really like it if could be
>>>> considered as as CivicAccess or COACID action.
>>>>
>>>> For those who might be able to get something like this off the ground.
>>>> There is tons of great information here:
>>>> http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/CensusAction
>>>>
>>>> It was an activity primarily aimed at the CENSUS however some of the
>>>> documentation can be used for the Free the Postal Code Data as well
>>>> and
>>>> there was some good discussion.
>>>>
>>>> I created a spot for people to collaborate here:
>>>> http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/Actions, I did not know how you wanted to
>>>> call it or what the tagline should so edit away.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hugh McGuire wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I suggest in addition to data cracking/hacking work, we consider
>>>>> writing an open letter to the government agencies & ministers,
>>>>> opposition MPs, and journalists, and try to put some pressure on. And
>>>>> get an online petition going (I don't think they do much, but they
>>>>> give something for bloggers to link to). This should be accompanied
>>>>> by a concerted attempt to get specific organizations to support the
>>>>> project (NGOs & universities, but also, say, the Bloc, the NDP, maybe
>>>>> even the now-oppositional Liberals).
>>>>>
>>>>> perhaps a url? FLCP.ca ... Front de Liberation Code Postal ... it's
>>>>> available! ;).
>>>>>
>>>>> Again, this "tiny" little data project demonstrates so clearly the
>>>>> dunderheadedness of Canada's govt data policies, in a way that many
>>>>> people could understand.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-
>>>>> discuss_civicaccess.ca
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-
>>>> discuss_civicaccess.ca
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca
>
>
>