STM Open Data - Montreal
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Finally! STM (Transport organization of Montreal) has released data in the open. http://www.stm.info/en-bref/developpeurs.htm Congrats to the little unknown fairy who is behind this. I talked about Montreal Transportation data in August 2010 when I was still working for Pheromone. http://lab.pheromone.ca/2010/08/09/montreal-transportation-open-data/ -- Karl Dubost Montréal, QC, Canada http://www.la-grange.net/karl/ |
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fairIES!
Lots of pressure and hard work by many folks. You can see analysis at http://quebecouvert.org/article/post/la-stm-ouvre-ses-donnees-de-transport
On 2012-04-19, at 1:24 PM, Karl Dubost wrote:
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In reply to this post by Karl Dubost
The data is available, but it is far from an Open Data license... :-(
-Glen On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Karl Dubost <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Finally! STM (Transport organization of Montreal) has released data in the open. > http://www.stm.info/en-bref/developpeurs.htm > > Congrats to the little unknown fairy who is behind this. > > > I talked about Montreal Transportation data in August 2010 when I was still working for Pheromone. > http://lab.pheromone.ca/2010/08/09/montreal-transportation-open-data/ > > -- > Karl Dubost > Montréal, QC, Canada > http://www.la-grange.net/karl/ > > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss -- - http://zzzoot.blogspot.com/ - |
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Sorry: forgot link to license:
http://www.stm.info/en-bref/developpeurs-licence.htm On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:33 PM, Glen Newton <[hidden email]> wrote: > The data is available, but it is far from an Open Data license... :-( > > -Glen > > On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Karl Dubost <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> Finally! STM (Transport organization of Montreal) has released data in the open. >> http://www.stm.info/en-bref/developpeurs.htm >> >> Congrats to the little unknown fairy who is behind this. >> >> >> I talked about Montreal Transportation data in August 2010 when I was still working for Pheromone. >> http://lab.pheromone.ca/2010/08/09/montreal-transportation-open-data/ >> >> -- >> Karl Dubost >> Montréal, QC, Canada >> http://www.la-grange.net/karl/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss > > > > -- > - > http://zzzoot.blogspot.com/ > - -- - http://zzzoot.blogspot.com/ - |
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In reply to this post by Glen Newton
Le 19 avr. 2012 à 13:33, Glen Newton a écrit : > The data is available, but it is far from an Open Data license... :-( one step at a time. It is progress. Let's push the envelop step by step. -- Karl Dubost Montréal, QC, Canada http://www.la-grange.net/karl/ |
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Uh, no, this license is an incredibly dangerous trap.
It requires you to indemnify and shelter them from all and any claims. I haven't seen anything like this in any other similar data license (even the really bad ones and I've read a lot of them). This means that if anyone sues them because of their data on your site, you have to cover them FOR EVERYTHING. Even if it is their fault. Or even if they win (you get to pay their legal fees in either case) Only a crazy person would accept using this data under this license. -Glen On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:48 PM, Karl Dubost <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Le 19 avr. 2012 à 13:33, Glen Newton a écrit : >> The data is available, but it is far from an Open Data license... :-( > > one step at a time. > It is progress. > Let's push the envelop step by step. > > -- > Karl Dubost > Montréal, QC, Canada > http://www.la-grange.net/karl/ > > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss -- - http://zzzoot.blogspot.com/ - |
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Karl,
To be clear, I did not mean to imply you were a 'crazy person'. I should have written more carefully... Thanks, Glen On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:56 PM, Glen Newton <[hidden email]> wrote: > Uh, no, this license is an incredibly dangerous trap. > > It requires you to indemnify and shelter them from all and any claims. > I haven't seen anything like this in any other similar data license > (even the really bad ones and I've read a lot of them). > > This means that if anyone sues them because of their data on your > site, you have to cover them FOR EVERYTHING. Even if it is their > fault. Or even if they win (you get to pay their legal fees in either > case) > > Only a crazy person would accept using this data under this license. > > -Glen > > On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:48 PM, Karl Dubost <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> Le 19 avr. 2012 à 13:33, Glen Newton a écrit : >>> The data is available, but it is far from an Open Data license... :-( >> >> one step at a time. >> It is progress. >> Let's push the envelop step by step. >> >> -- >> Karl Dubost >> Montréal, QC, Canada >> http://www.la-grange.net/karl/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss > > > > -- > - > http://zzzoot.blogspot.com/ > - -- - http://zzzoot.blogspot.com/ - |
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Le 19 avr. 2012 à 13:59, Glen Newton a écrit : > To be clear, I did not mean to imply you were a 'crazy person'. > I should have written more carefully... crazy suits me ;) -- Karl Dubost Montréal, QC, Canada http://www.la-grange.net/karl/ |
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In reply to this post by Glen Newton
Le 19 avr. 2012 à 13:56, Glen Newton a écrit : > Uh, no, this license is an incredibly dangerous trap. Then it is useful feedback and an opportunity for Montreal Ouvert to enter the game if not done already to advocate better practice. -- Karl Dubost Montréal, QC, Canada http://www.la-grange.net/karl/ |
Re: STM Open Data - Montreal
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Can you send the url to the list?
On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Karl Dubost <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- Tracey P. Lauriault 613-234-2805 |
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In reply to this post by Karl Dubost
> Then it is useful feedback and an opportunity for Montreal Ouvert to enter the game if not done already to advocate better practice.
Thanks. I agree: this is an iterative process and some licenses - unfortunately - start further from real Open Data licenses than others. Like this one. I have some other issues concerning this license that I will write up tonight. thanks, Glen On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Karl Dubost <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Le 19 avr. 2012 à 13:56, Glen Newton a écrit : >> Uh, no, this license is an incredibly dangerous trap. > > Then it is useful feedback and an opportunity for Montreal Ouvert to enter the game if not done already to advocate better practice. > > > -- > Karl Dubost > Montréal, QC, Canada > http://www.la-grange.net/karl/ > > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss -- - http://zzzoot.blogspot.com/ - |
Re: STM Open Data - Montreal
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In reply to this post by Glen Newton
Here is the url (http://www.stm.info/en-bref/developpeurs-licence.htm)
I agree with Glen, the licence is pretty ugly. AMT more or less has the same, but in PDF (http://www.amt.qc.ca/uploadedFiles/AMT/Site_Usager/SAC/Services_mobiles/licence-donnees-%20ouvertes.pdf). When we did the transpoCamp last year, we raised this issue and officials explained how they don't want to be caught in a "misuse" of their data. They are very very affraid of that and the risk of having their name being linked with any sort of litigation where their data would be used. That's why you end up with a crazy paragraph that looks like : "You must mention the STM as the source of the data, until we ask you to remove the mention if we don't agree with how you use the data" . That the regular "attribution" criteria, but with a little over-controlling twist. (In french, it gives "Vous êtes tenu de mentionner la STM en tant que source des données que vous utilisez. À la demande de la STM, vous devrez toutefois retirer une telle mention lors d’une utilisation qu’elle estime illégitime ou contraire à l’intérêt du public.") I agree it's an important first step but... with an ugly licence. Steph Le 19 avril 2012 17:59, Glen Newton <[hidden email]> a écrit : Karl, |
Re: STM Open Data - Montreal
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In reply to this post by Glen Newton
Cheers!
On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:33 PM, Glen Newton <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- Tracey P. Lauriault 613-234-2805 |
Re: STM Open Data - Montreal
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In reply to this post by Glen Newton
Glen, I'd be happy to hear more of your thoughts about the licence. If
you agree, we could translate your analysis and add it to the QuebecOuvert post on the topic Thanks Steph Le 12-04-19 14:06, Glen Newton a écrit : >> Then it is useful feedback and an opportunity for Montreal Ouvert to enter the game if not done already to advocate better practice. > Thanks. I agree: this is an iterative process and some licenses - > unfortunately - start further from real Open Data licenses than > others. Like this one. > I have some other issues concerning this license that I will write up tonight. > > thanks, > Glen > > On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Karl Dubost<[hidden email]> wrote: >> Le 19 avr. 2012 à 13:56, Glen Newton a écrit : >>> Uh, no, this license is an incredibly dangerous trap. >> Then it is useful feedback and an opportunity for Montreal Ouvert to enter the game if not done already to advocate better practice. >> >> >> -- >> Karl Dubost >> Montréal, QC, Canada >> http://www.la-grange.net/karl/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss > > |
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Hi Steph,
That sounds good: I'll put something together over the weekend and post it [I was a little busy yesterday]. And my written French isn't great! Thanks, Glen On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 9:09 PM, Stéphane Guidoin <[hidden email]> wrote: > Glen, I'd be happy to hear more of your thoughts about the licence. If you > agree, we could translate your analysis and add it to the QuebecOuvert post > on the topic > > Thanks > > Steph > > Le 12-04-19 14:06, Glen Newton a écrit : > >>> Then it is useful feedback and an opportunity for Montreal Ouvert to >>> enter the game if not done already to advocate better practice. >> >> Thanks. I agree: this is an iterative process and some licenses - >> unfortunately - start further from real Open Data licenses than >> others. Like this one. >> I have some other issues concerning this license that I will write up >> tonight. >> >> thanks, >> Glen >> >> On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Karl Dubost<[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> Le 19 avr. 2012 à 13:56, Glen Newton a écrit : >>>> >>>> Uh, no, this license is an incredibly dangerous trap. >>> >>> Then it is useful feedback and an opportunity for Montreal Ouvert to >>> enter the game if not done already to advocate better practice. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Karl Dubost >>> Montréal, QC, Canada >>> http://www.la-grange.net/karl/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss -- - http://zzzoot.blogspot.com/ - |
Re: STM Open Data - Montreal
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I'll do the translation!
Le 20 avril 2012 13:31, Glen Newton <[hidden email]> a écrit : Hi Steph, |
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