Re: [ParIT] Re: [Sparkplug] [Fwd: Re: Canada Census on line - GOSLING - Russell]

[Jason Loughead-2]

Sorry for responding to my own post but I just had an idea, what about setting
up a new domain, something like http://stop.computeraparthied.com ? We could
maintain a list of websites that violate the principle of open access based
on open standards. (Perhaps even http://explorerdestroyer.com would make the
list.)

Jason Loughead


On Thursday 04 May 2006 8:35 am, Jason Loughead wrote:

> I went to the site using firefox and konqueror and lo and behold I got the
> same message. Then I called up and asked about the system requirements.
> I has to be remembered that the help desk people are not highly technical
> so making real life analogies is the best way to have them understand the
> issues. The first guy I spoke with was very cordial and I told him that the
> site checking what operating system I was using was irrelevant if I met all
> the technical requirements (SSL v.2 128 bit encryption, java, javascript,
> and cookies). I then told the gentleman "What if our public roads had a
> requirement that only allowed Ford vehicles to travel on them?" This is
> about open standards and commercial interests in our system have a vested
> interest in locking every product but their own out. He asked me tho hold
> while get discovered the sysadmin department.
>
> After a few minutes Julie came on the line (before I started any spiel) and
> said "Oh, you're one of those! You're trying to protect freedom for users.
> My boyfriend is running linux at home." Needless to say I had a very
> responsive audience and took full advantage of it. ;) She told me I could
> fill out the form with her on the phone and I told her I could change the
> browser identification to basically lied about my OS and she said that
> would be like hacking though. I said "No it would be like me calling you
> right now and if the government had a policy of only talking to white
> people, saying that I was not black to get service." She thanked me over
> and over for telling her about this and got my phone number, email, website
> (I volunteered
> http://plug.ca ), and that someone would get back to me.
>
> I would encourage everyone to call and politely demand the website not
> check the Operating System if all other check are passed. :P
>
> Jason
>
> On Wednesday 03 May 2006 10:55 pm, Richard Houston wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Here is an exchange i am involved with on the CivicAccess mailing list.
> > I wanted to post it to the plug list for those of you who maybe
> > interested and are not on the civicaccess mailing list.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Rich
> >
> > --------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
> > Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Canada Census on line - GOSLING -
> > Russell From:    "Tracey P. Lauriault" <[hidden email]>
> > Date:    Wed, May 3, 2006 10:11 pm
> > To:      [hidden email]
> >          "civicaccess discuss" <[hidden email]>
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Russell can you help Richard out? Could you share on your knowledge on
> > the list regarding this question?
> >
> > Russell is with - Getting Open Source Logic INto Governments (GOSLING)
> > see his bio on the wiki - http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/RussellMcOrmond
> >
> > Do other people on the list work on this?
> >
> > Richard Houston wrote:
> > > Hey all,
> > >
> > > Not sure if this falls into civicaccess's mandate but I figured I would
> > > pass it on.
> > >
> > > Today I tried to fill out my census info on-line (www.census2006.ca).
> > > When I tried to get started I got this
> > >
> > > "Your browser does not meet the minimum requirements to access this
> > > site
> > >
> > > The current version of browser you are using is not supported by this
> >
> > site.
> >
> > > To download a supported version of browser, please refer to: To
> > > download the required software. If you do not wish to download a new
> > > browser, you can complete your paper questionnaire and return it by
> > > mail in the envelope provided."
> > >
> > > So I called the help desk. I asked them why I get this messages and
> > > that I met all the requirements with one small exception. I was on
> > > Linux. I was told that Linux was not supported and I would have to use
> > > Windows or Mac to access the site. I asked him why this was and the
> > > help desk guy told me that as Linux was not all that popular so it was
> > > not supported and would not likely be supported anytime soon. I took
> > > some time to try and educate this gentleman about how the Internet
> > > should not have a specific operating system requirement but I don't
> > > think he was really listening or cared.
> > >
> > > Is there any one I can contact on this in the government or is there a
> > > anything the group can do to bring open standers argument to Census
> > > Canada's website? As this is census update time I am sure that there
> > > are other Linux users out there that are having issues. I am not
> > > pushing a Linux agenda here but I am pushing for open standards for the
> > > government of Canada's website.
> > >
> > > I know the group is just starting to get going but is this maybe a good
> > > starting point for some action?
> > >
> > > If not any help in pointing me in the direction of someone I can
> > > contact to complain would be much appreciated.
> > >
> > > +------------------------------------+
> > > Best regards,
> > > -Richard Houston
> > > -R.L.H.  Consulting
> > > -E-Mail  [hidden email]
> > > -WWW     http://www.rlhc.net
> > > -Blog    http://www.rlhc.net/blog/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.
> > >ca
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sparkplug mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://mail2.plug.ca/mailman/listinfo/sparkplug

--
Software shouldn't be your struggle

[Richard Houston]

FYI, it does not work with FF on Linux masquerading as IE FF Moz or opera
on Windows. I tried this already. You just get a error pop up. Something
about trying to connect to 0.0.0.0 or something like that.

You were lucky. You got someone willing to listen. I was basically told
to piss off. Then I tried to politely educate the help desk guys who was
not listening anyways.

We all should be calling and making a complaint. Even is you are not on
Linux specific browsers is not acceptable.


I like that idea of the new site. Maybe that should be a PLUG.ca initiative?


+------------------------------------+
Best regards,
-Richard Houston
-R.L.H.  Consulting
-E-Mail  [hidden email]
-WWW     http://www.rlhc.net
-Blog    http://www.rlhc.net/blog/

> Sorry for responding to my own post but I just had an idea, what about
> setting up a new domain, something like http://stop.computeraparthied.com
> ? We could
> maintain a list of websites that violate the principle of open access
> based on open standards. (Perhaps even http://explorerdestroyer.com would
> make the list.)
>
> Jason Loughead
>
>
>
> On Thursday 04 May 2006 8:35 am, Jason Loughead wrote:
>
>> I went to the site using firefox and konqueror and lo and behold I got
>> the same message. Then I called up and asked about the system
>> requirements. I has to be remembered that the help desk people are not
>> highly technical so making real life analogies is the best way to have
>> them understand the issues. The first guy I spoke with was very cordial
>> and I told him that the site checking what operating system I was using
>> was irrelevant if I met all the technical requirements (SSL v.2 128 bit
>> encryption, java, javascript, and cookies). I then told the gentleman
>> "What if our public roads had a
>> requirement that only allowed Ford vehicles to travel on them?" This is
>>  about open standards and commercial interests in our system have a
>> vested interest in locking every product but their own out. He asked me
>> tho hold while get discovered the sysadmin department.
>>
>> After a few minutes Julie came on the line (before I started any
>> spiel) and said "Oh, you're one of those! You're trying to protect
>> freedom for users. My boyfriend is running linux at home." Needless to
>> say I had a very responsive audience and took full advantage of it. ;)
>> She told me I could
>> fill out the form with her on the phone and I told her I could change
>> the browser identification to basically lied about my OS and she said
>> that would be like hacking though. I said "No it would be like me
>> calling you right now and if the government had a policy of only
>> talking to white people, saying that I was not black to get service."
>> She thanked me over
>> and over for telling her about this and got my phone number, email,
>> website (I volunteered
>> http://plug.ca ), and that someone would get back to me.
>>
>>
>> I would encourage everyone to call and politely demand the website not
>>  check the Operating System if all other check are passed. :P
>>
>> Jason
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday 03 May 2006 10:55 pm, Richard Houston wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>
>>> Here is an exchange i am involved with on the CivicAccess mailing
>>> list. I wanted to post it to the plug list for those of you who maybe
>>>  interested and are not on the civicaccess mailing list.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>> Rich
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------- Original Message
>>> ----------------------------
>>> Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Canada Census on line - GOSLING -
>>> Russell From:    "Tracey P. Lauriault" <[hidden email]>
>>> Date:    Wed, May 3, 2006 10:11 pm
>>> To:      [hidden email]
>>> "civicaccess discuss" <[hidden email]>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>> Russell can you help Richard out? Could you share on your knowledge
>>> on the list regarding this question?
>>>
>>> Russell is with - Getting Open Source Logic INto Governments
>>> (GOSLING)
>>> see his bio on the wiki - http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/RussellMcOrmond
>>>
>>> Do other people on the list work on this?
>>>
>>>
>>> Richard Houston wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hey all,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not sure if this falls into civicaccess's mandate but I figured I
>>>> would pass it on.
>>>>
>>>> Today I tried to fill out my census info on-line
>>>> (www.census2006.ca).
>>>> When I tried to get started I got this
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Your browser does not meet the minimum requirements to access
>>>> this site
>>>>
>>>> The current version of browser you are using is not supported by
>>>> this
>>>
>>> site.
>>>
>>>> To download a supported version of browser, please refer to: To
>>>> download the required software. If you do not wish to download a
>>>> new browser, you can complete your paper questionnaire and return
>>>> it by mail in the envelope provided."
>>>>
>>>> So I called the help desk. I asked them why I get this messages
>>>> and that I met all the requirements with one small exception. I was
>>>> on Linux. I was told that Linux was not supported and I would have
>>>> to use Windows or Mac to access the site. I asked him why this was
>>>> and the help desk guy told me that as Linux was not all that
>>>> popular so it was not supported and would not likely be supported
>>>> anytime soon. I took some time to try and educate this gentleman
>>>> about how the Internet should not have a specific operating system
>>>> requirement but I don't think he was really listening or cared.
>>>>
>>>> Is there any one I can contact on this in the government or is
>>>> there a anything the group can do to bring open standers argument
>>>> to Census Canada's website? As this is census update time I am sure
>>>> that there are other Linux users out there that are having issues.
>>>> I am not
>>>> pushing a Linux agenda here but I am pushing for open standards for
>>>> the government of Canada's website.
>>>>
>>>> I know the group is just starting to get going but is this maybe a
>>>> good starting point for some action?
>>>>
>>>> If not any help in pointing me in the direction of someone I can
>>>> contact to complain would be much appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> +------------------------------------+
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> -Richard Houston
>>>> -R.L.H.  Consulting
>>>> -E-Mail  [hidden email]
>>>> -WWW     http://www.rlhc.net
>>>> -Blog    http://www.rlhc.net/blog/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicacc
>>>> ess. ca
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sparkplug mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://mail2.plug.ca/mailman/listinfo/sparkplug
>>>
>

[Armando]

That's a great idea Jason... it would be a worthwhile and useful
reference for both technical and non-technical users.. you could have
site vs browser comparisons (list of sites and what browsers will and
will not work with them) and have users join and submit sites (which
would be verified) to foster a community effort model... say such and
such website works on 'these' browsers (and operating systems in the
case of census) but not 'these ones' and perhaps a list of problems that
occur on the ones it doesn't work on and a short description.. something
along those lines... Sorry, I'm getting into solution mode :)

If anyone is interested in pursuing this .. I would be willing to offer
up the hosting space. I have a personal domain through 1&1 hosting
(Linux Business package naturally) and have a few free domains to spare.
Cheers.

Armando

Footnote: I was setting up a D-Link (DI-614 I think) wireless router for
my in-laws last week and on the page where you change the SSID settings
and change the type of encryption, when I went to click the "Apply"
grahpical icon, absolutely nothing happened. This was in Firefox 1.5.0.2
on WinXP. I didn't go too in depth with it because I was pressed for
time so don't know if it was a browser setting, but I did note that when
I tried in IE it worked fine. I'm going to confirm if this is a problem
with the router before I go back to D-Link with it so if anyone else has
run into this issue, please let me know, thanks!

Jason Loughead wrote:

> Sorry for responding to my own post but I just had an idea, what about setting
> up a new domain, something like http://stop.computeraparthied.com ? We could
> maintain a list of websites that violate the principle of open access based
> on open standards. (Perhaps even http://explorerdestroyer.com would make the
> list.)
>
> Jason Loughead
>
>
> On Thursday 04 May 2006 8:35 am, Jason Loughead wrote:
>
>>I went to the site using firefox and konqueror and lo and behold I got the
>>same message. Then I called up and asked about the system requirements.
>>I has to be remembered that the help desk people are not highly technical
>>so making real life analogies is the best way to have them understand the
>>issues. The first guy I spoke with was very cordial and I told him that the
>>site checking what operating system I was using was irrelevant if I met all
>>the technical requirements (SSL v.2 128 bit encryption, java, javascript,
>>and cookies). I then told the gentleman "What if our public roads had a
>>requirement that only allowed Ford vehicles to travel on them?" This is
>>about open standards and commercial interests in our system have a vested
>>interest in locking every product but their own out. He asked me tho hold
>>while get discovered the sysadmin department.
>>
>>After a few minutes Julie came on the line (before I started any spiel) and
>>said "Oh, you're one of those! You're trying to protect freedom for users.
>>My boyfriend is running linux at home." Needless to say I had a very
>>responsive audience and took full advantage of it. ;) She told me I could
>>fill out the form with her on the phone and I told her I could change the
>>browser identification to basically lied about my OS and she said that
>>would be like hacking though. I said "No it would be like me calling you
>>right now and if the government had a policy of only talking to white
>>people, saying that I was not black to get service." She thanked me over
>>and over for telling her about this and got my phone number, email, website
>>(I volunteered
>>http://plug.ca ), and that someone would get back to me.
>>
>>I would encourage everyone to call and politely demand the website not
>>check the Operating System if all other check are passed. :P
>>
>>Jason
>>
>>On Wednesday 03 May 2006 10:55 pm, Richard Houston wrote:
>>
>>>Hi all,
>>>
>>>Here is an exchange i am involved with on the CivicAccess mailing list.
>>>I wanted to post it to the plug list for those of you who maybe
>>>interested and are not on the civicaccess mailing list.
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>Rich
>>>
>>>--------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
>>>Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Canada Census on line - GOSLING -
>>>Russell From:    "Tracey P. Lauriault" <[hidden email]>
>>>Date:    Wed, May 3, 2006 10:11 pm
>>>To:      [hidden email]
>>>         "civicaccess discuss" <[hidden email]>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>Russell can you help Richard out? Could you share on your knowledge on
>>>the list regarding this question?
>>>
>>>Russell is with - Getting Open Source Logic INto Governments (GOSLING)
>>>see his bio on the wiki - http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/RussellMcOrmond
>>>
>>>Do other people on the list work on this?
>>>
>>>Richard Houston wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hey all,
>>>>
>>>>Not sure if this falls into civicaccess's mandate but I figured I would
>>>>pass it on.
>>>>
>>>>Today I tried to fill out my census info on-line (www.census2006.ca).
>>>>When I tried to get started I got this
>>>>
>>>>"Your browser does not meet the minimum requirements to access this
>>>>site
>>>>
>>>>The current version of browser you are using is not supported by this
>>>
>>>site.
>>>
>>>
>>>>To download a supported version of browser, please refer to: To
>>>>download the required software. If you do not wish to download a new
>>>>browser, you can complete your paper questionnaire and return it by
>>>>mail in the envelope provided."
>>>>
>>>>So I called the help desk. I asked them why I get this messages and
>>>>that I met all the requirements with one small exception. I was on
>>>>Linux. I was told that Linux was not supported and I would have to use
>>>>Windows or Mac to access the site. I asked him why this was and the
>>>>help desk guy told me that as Linux was not all that popular so it was
>>>>not supported and would not likely be supported anytime soon. I took
>>>>some time to try and educate this gentleman about how the Internet
>>>>should not have a specific operating system requirement but I don't
>>>>think he was really listening or cared.
>>>>
>>>>Is there any one I can contact on this in the government or is there a
>>>>anything the group can do to bring open standers argument to Census
>>>>Canada's website? As this is census update time I am sure that there
>>>>are other Linux users out there that are having issues. I am not
>>>>pushing a Linux agenda here but I am pushing for open standards for the
>>>>government of Canada's website.
>>>>
>>>>I know the group is just starting to get going but is this maybe a good
>>>>starting point for some action?
>>>>
>>>>If not any help in pointing me in the direction of someone I can
>>>>contact to complain would be much appreciated.
>>>>
>>>>+------------------------------------+
>>>>Best regards,
>>>>-Richard Houston
>>>>-R.L.H.  Consulting
>>>>-E-Mail  [hidden email]
>>>>-WWW     http://www.rlhc.net
>>>>-Blog    http://www.rlhc.net/blog/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>>>>[hidden email]
>>>>http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.
>>>>ca
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Sparkplug mailing list
>>>[hidden email]
>>>https://mail2.plug.ca/mailman/listinfo/sparkplug
>
>