Re: Organizing? [WAS] Re: Endorsements - Open Government Partnership (michael gurstein)

[Mark Weiler-2]

Regarding endorsements, a question I have is for the applicants.  Part of the Open Government Partnership is access to information...

"In order to participate in OGP, governments must exhibit a demonstrated  commitment to open government in four key areas, as measured by  objective indicators and validated by independent experts....*Access to Information* An access to information law that guarantees the public’s right to information and access to government data is essential to the spirit and practice of open government."

David's views on FOI laws being broken has been expressed publicly (e.g., http://eaves.ca/2011/03/30/access-to-information-is-fatally-broken-you-just-dont-know-it-yet/ 
but I haven't read his more optimistic view - David? Tracey, would you know Harvey Low's experience with and vision for Canada's Access to Information Act? 

I think the task of re-imagining Canada's access regime, one that is principled on an individual's right to access info held by the gov't, is a tremendous task but one that I think can be done.

Mark

[Tracey P. Lauriault]

I do not know what Harvey's knowledge in this area is, but I know that
he would be happy to talk with you about it and it would be great if
you could share some readings to help orient him and other to the
issues, and of course, you are most welcome to prepare a guest blog
post on datalibre.ca about the subject.

I will put you on the list of people to consult with if the CDPs
application is successful.  Also, it might be helpful for him as he is
on the City of Toronto Open Government Task Force.

Cheers
t

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 2:15 PM, Mark Weiler <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Regarding endorsements, a question I have is for the applicants.  Part of the Open Government Partnership is access to information...
>
> "In order to participate in OGP, governments must exhibit a demonstrated  commitment to open government in four key areas, as measured by  objective indicators and validated by independent experts....*Access to Information* An access to information law that guarantees the public’s right to information and access to government data is essential to the spirit and practice of open government."
>
> David's views on FOI laws being broken has been expressed publicly (e.g., http://eaves.ca/2011/03/30/access-to-information-is-fatally-broken-you-just-dont-know-it-yet/
> but I haven't read his more optimistic view - David? Tracey, would you know Harvey Low's experience with and vision for Canada's Access to Information Act?
>
> I think the task of re-imagining Canada's access regime, one that is principled on an individual's right to access info held by the gov't, is a tremendous task but one that I think can be done.
>
> Mark
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

--
Tracey P. Lauriault
613-234-2805

"Every epoch dreams the one that follows it's the dream form of the
future, not its reality" it is the "wish image of the collective".

Walter Benjamin, between 1927-1940,
(http://www.columbia.edu/itc/architecture/ockman/pdfs/dossier_4/buck-morss.pdf)

[David Eaves]

Hi Mark,

Personally, I think we need a rethink of Access to Information process.
The fact that you can't make a request online (or at least that you have
to mail in the fee) is ridiculous. I understand if the government want's
to ship PDF versions of documents that are "official" but it is critical
that requesters be given digital versions of documents (when they exist)
so that requesters can do something as basic as a keyword searches.

More importantly, the number of requests just keeps increasing, and the
ability of the government to process them simply does not scale - so
until we digitize the process, we are going to end up in a situation
where the whole system will breakdown.

Does this require changes to the access to information law? Possible,
but there is a fair bit one could do without changing it and applying
pressure to this place is probably the right place to start.

Of course, giving the access to information commissioner some real
resources would probably help as well.

Dave

On 12-02-07 11:15 AM, Mark Weiler wrote:

>
> Regarding endorsements, a question I have is for the applicants.  Part of the Open Government Partnership is access to information...
>
> "In order to participate in OGP, governments must exhibit a demonstrated  commitment to open government in four key areas, as measured by  objective indicators and validated by independent experts....*Access to Information* An access to information law that guarantees the public’s right to information and access to government data is essential to the spirit and practice of open government."
>
> David's views on FOI laws being broken has been expressed publicly (e.g., http://eaves.ca/2011/03/30/access-to-information-is-fatally-broken-you-just-dont-know-it-yet/ 
> but I haven't read his more optimistic view - David? Tracey, would you know Harvey Low's experience with and vision for Canada's Access to Information Act?
>
> I think the task of re-imagining Canada's access regime, one that is principled on an individual's right to access info held by the gov't, is a tremendous task but one that I think can be done.
>
> Mark
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

[James McKinney-2]

I've done some research into this at the provincial level. In QC, BC, MB and YT, you can email requests. If you request that the response be via email, then as long as the data is not confidential (as it would be if you were requesting your own personal records) they will reply via email. As I was writing this email, I learned NB changed its laws in 2010 to have no FOI fees - I've since asked them whether they accept email requests. SK is the only other no-fee province but they explicitly do not accept email or fax requests.

Of course, I doubt many people know this, and I very much doubt they know what email addresses to use. (You need to email a specific public body, not the provincial FOI office.)

I may be attending a conference in April organized by the authors of Alaveteli (the open FOI system based on WhatDoTheyKnow.com), at which point I'll have a better idea of what would be required to get something running like it in Canada. It'd be great if Open North can launch something for Right to Know week in September.

Please feel free to contact me directly if you'd like to collaborate on this sort of FOI website. I'm uncertain what the immediate consequences would be in terms of increasing/decreasing the burden on the FOI system, but if successful it will at least shake things up.

--

James McKinney
Open North
+1.514.247.0223

http://opennorth.ca/

http://citizenbudget.com/ interactive budget consultations for municipalities

[hidden email]

Twitter: @opennorth

Subscribe to our newsletter

On 2012-02-08, at 12:48 PM, David Eaves wrote:

Hi Mark,

Personally, I think we need a rethink of Access to Information process. The fact that you can't make a request online (or at least that you have to mail in the fee) is ridiculous. I understand if the government want's to ship PDF versions of documents that are "official" but it is critical that requesters be given digital versions of documents (when they exist) so that requesters can do something as basic as a keyword searches.

More importantly, the number of requests just keeps increasing, and the ability of the government to process them simply does not scale - so until we digitize the process, we are going to end up in a situation where the whole system will breakdown.

Does this require changes to the access to information law? Possible, but there is a fair bit one could do without changing it and applying pressure to this place is probably the right place to start.

Of course, giving the access to information commissioner some real resources would probably help as well.

Dave

On 12-02-07 11:15 AM, Mark Weiler wrote:

Regarding endorsements, a question I have is for the applicants.  Part of the Open Government Partnership is access to information...

"In order to participate in OGP, governments must exhibit a demonstrated  commitment to open government in four key areas, as measured by  objective indicators and validated by independent experts....*Access to Information* An access to information law that guarantees the public’s right to information and access to government data is essential to the spirit and practice of open government."

David's views on FOI laws being broken has been expressed publicly (e.g., http://eaves.ca/2011/03/30/access-to-information-is-fatally-broken-you-just-dont-know-it-yet/ but I haven't read his more optimistic view - David? Tracey, would you know Harvey Low's experience with and vision for Canada's Access to Information Act?

I think the task of re-imagining Canada's access regime, one that is principled on an individual's right to access info held by the gov't, is a tremendous task but one that I think can be done.

Mark

_______________________________________________

CivicAccess-discuss mailing list

[hidden email]

http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

[James McKinney-2]

To be clear: the FOI website I describe would not target the federal level, as that level has fees. It would target the no-fee provinces and territories that accept email (QC, BC, MB, NB, YT).

On 2012-02-09, at 12:41 AM, James McKinney wrote:

I've done some research into this at the provincial level. In QC, BC, MB and YT, you can email requests. If you request that the response be via email, then as long as the data is not confidential (as it would be if you were requesting your own personal records) they will reply via email. As I was writing this email, I learned NB changed its laws in 2010 to have no FOI fees - I've since asked them whether they accept email requests. SK is the only other no-fee province but they explicitly do not accept email or fax requests.

Of course, I doubt many people know this, and I very much doubt they know what email addresses to use. (You need to email a specific public body, not the provincial FOI office.)

I may be attending a conference in April organized by the authors of Alaveteli (the open FOI system based on WhatDoTheyKnow.com), at which point I'll have a better idea of what would be required to get something running like it in Canada. It'd be great if Open North can launch something for Right to Know week in September.

Please feel free to contact me directly if you'd like to collaborate on this sort of FOI website. I'm uncertain what the immediate consequences would be in terms of increasing/decreasing the burden on the FOI system, but if successful it will at least shake things up.

--

James McKinney
Open North
+1.514.247.0223

http://opennorth.ca/

http://citizenbudget.com/ interactive budget consultations for municipalities

[hidden email]

Twitter: @opennorth

Subscribe to our newsletter

On 2012-02-08, at 12:48 PM, David Eaves wrote:

Hi Mark,

Personally, I think we need a rethink of Access to Information process. The fact that you can't make a request online (or at least that you have to mail in the fee) is ridiculous. I understand if the government want's to ship PDF versions of documents that are "official" but it is critical that requesters be given digital versions of documents (when they exist) so that requesters can do something as basic as a keyword searches.

More importantly, the number of requests just keeps increasing, and the ability of the government to process them simply does not scale - so until we digitize the process, we are going to end up in a situation where the whole system will breakdown.

Does this require changes to the access to information law? Possible, but there is a fair bit one could do without changing it and applying pressure to this place is probably the right place to start.

Of course, giving the access to information commissioner some real resources would probably help as well.

Dave

On 12-02-07 11:15 AM, Mark Weiler wrote:

Regarding endorsements, a question I have is for the applicants.  Part of the Open Government Partnership is access to information...

"In order to participate in OGP, governments must exhibit a demonstrated  commitment to open government in four key areas, as measured by  objective indicators and validated by independent experts....*Access to Information* An access to information law that guarantees the public’s right to information and access to government data is essential to the spirit and practice of open government."

David's views on FOI laws being broken has been expressed publicly (e.g., http://eaves.ca/2011/03/30/access-to-information-is-fatally-broken-you-just-dont-know-it-yet/ but I haven't read his more optimistic view - David? Tracey, would you know Harvey Low's experience with and vision for Canada's Access to Information Act?

I think the task of re-imagining Canada's access regime, one that is principled on an individual's right to access info held by the gov't, is a tremendous task but one that I think can be done.

Mark

_______________________________________________

CivicAccess-discuss mailing list

[hidden email]

http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss