Postal Code data

[Aaron Freeman]

New to this list, so my apologies if I’m not up to date on this issue.  I was looking at some of the past postings on liberating postal code files from Canada Post.  

I was wondering if anyone is interested in pushing the federal government once again to release this data.  I’d be happy to be involved in such an initiative.  Have there been organized efforts in the past to win this fight?

Aaron
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[Tracey P. Lauriault]

what a great idea!

On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 11:22 PM, Aaron Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:

New to this list, so my apologies if I’m not up to date on this issue.  I was looking at some of the past postings on liberating postal code files from Canada Post.

I was wondering if anyone is interested in pushing the federal government once again to release this data.  I’d be happy to be involved in such an initiative.  Have there been organized efforts in the past to win this fight?

Aaron
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[john whelan]

Is the UK postcode data available?  Does anyone have any feedback of the impact of releasing it?

Note to Tracy did Ireland use postcodes and was it released?

Thanks

Cheerio John

On 8 March 2016 at 22:22, Aaron Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:

New to this list, so my apologies if I’m not up to date on this issue.  I was looking at some of the past postings on liberating postal code files from Canada Post.

I was wondering if anyone is interested in pushing the federal government once again to release this data.  I’d be happy to be involved in such an initiative.  Have there been organized efforts in the past to win this fight?

Aaron
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[Mike Sinclair]

I would love to see this data released. I'd be willing to help wherever I could to see this happen.

Cheers,

Mike

ᐧ

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 3:58 AM, john whelan <[hidden email]> wrote:

Is the UK postcode data available?  Does anyone have any feedback of the impact of releasing it?

Note to Tracy did Ireland use postcodes and was it released?

Thanks

Cheerio John

On 8 March 2016 at 22:22, Aaron Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:

New to this list, so my apologies if I’m not up to date on this issue.  I was looking at some of the past postings on liberating postal code files from Canada Post.

I was wondering if anyone is interested in pushing the federal government once again to release this data.  I’d be happy to be involved in such an initiative.  Have there been organized efforts in the past to win this fight?

Aaron
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http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

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[Harvey Low]

I hardly post here but on this – YES! We could use postal codes as an additional level of geo aggregation for Census  and Long Form variables. If there is any way I can help, please let me know!

 

 

Harvey Low,  B.A.A., M.C.I.P.

Manager, Social Research & Information Management,

Social Development Finance & Administration Division,

City of Toronto
City Hall, 14th Floor, East Tower
100 Queen Street West
Toronto, ON M5H 2N2

416-392-8660
[hidden email]

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mike Sinclair
Sent: March-09-16 7:06 AM
To: civicaccess discuss
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Postal Code data

 

I would love to see this data released. I'd be willing to help wherever I could to see this happen.

Cheers,

Mike

ᐧ

Mike Sinclair

[phone]

OpenGovGear

opengovgear.com | @OpenGovGear

 

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 3:58 AM, john whelan <[hidden email]> wrote:

Is the UK postcode data available?  Does anyone have any feedback of the impact of releasing it?

Note to Tracy did Ireland use postcodes and was it released?

Thanks

 

Cheerio John

 

On 8 March 2016 at 22:22, Aaron Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:

New to this list, so my apologies if I’m not up to date on this issue.  I was looking at some of the past postings on liberating postal code files from Canada Post.

I was wondering if anyone is interested in pushing the federal government once again to release this data.  I’d be happy to be involved in such an initiative.  Have there been organized efforts in the past to win this fight?

Aaron
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[Trevor Twining]

Long time lurker...I'm also interested and able to help. 

TT

On Mar 9, 2016, at 8:08 AM, Harvey Low <[hidden email]> wrote:

I hardly post here but on this – YES! We could use postal codes as an additional level of geo aggregation for Census  and Long Form variables. If there is any way I can help, please let me know!

 

 

Harvey Low,  B.A.A., M.C.I.P.

Manager, Social Research & Information Management,

Social Development Finance & Administration Division,

City of Toronto
City Hall, 14th Floor, East Tower
100 Queen Street West
Toronto, ON M5H 2N2

416-392-8660
[hidden email]

 

 

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mike Sinclair
Sent: March-09-16 7:06 AM
To: civicaccess discuss
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Postal Code data

 

I would love to see this data released. I'd be willing to help wherever I could to see this happen.

Cheers,

Mike

ᐧ

Mike Sinclair

[phone]

OpenGovGear

opengovgear.com | @OpenGovGear

 

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 3:58 AM, john whelan <[hidden email]> wrote:

Is the UK postcode data available?  Does anyone have any feedback of the impact of releasing it?

Note to Tracy did Ireland use postcodes and was it released?

Thanks

 

Cheerio John

 

On 8 March 2016 at 22:22, Aaron Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:

New to this list, so my apologies if I’m not up to date on this issue.  I was looking at some of the past postings on liberating postal code files from Canada Post.

I was wondering if anyone is interested in pushing the federal government once again to release this data.  I’d be happy to be involved in such an initiative.  Have there been organized efforts in the past to win this fight?

Aaron
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[Harvey Low]

Yep I lurk. J  I ironically spend almost no time on social media on this topic but almost all my efforts working with local open data champions in Toronto like Richard Pietro and making our datasets available at City of Toronto as well as serving on the City’s Open Government Committee J We now have for example over 300 datasets in Wellbeing Toronto (www.toronto.ca/wellbeing) and this is only the beginning, not to mention  our ever growing Open Data Site (www.toronto.ca/open). We don’t market ourselves very well.  Anyways any I can help though on the pcode issue.

 

Harvey Low,  B.A.A., M.C.I.P.

Manager, Social Research & Information Management,

Social Development Finance & Administration Division,

City of Toronto
City Hall, 14th Floor, East Tower
100 Queen Street West
Toronto, ON M5H 2N2

416-392-8660
[hidden email]

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Trevor Twining
Sent: March-09-16 8:12 AM
To: civicaccess discuss
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Postal Code data

 

Long time lurker...I'm also interested and able to help. 

TT

On Mar 9, 2016, at 8:08 AM, Harvey Low <[hidden email]> wrote:

I hardly post here but on this – YES! We could use postal codes as an additional level of geo aggregation for Census  and Long Form variables. If there is any way I can help, please let me know!

 

 

Harvey Low,  B.A.A., M.C.I.P.

Manager, Social Research & Information Management,

Social Development Finance & Administration Division,

City of Toronto
City Hall, 14th Floor, East Tower
100 Queen Street West
Toronto, ON M5H 2N2

416-392-8660
[hidden email]

 

 

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mike Sinclair
Sent: March-09-16 7:06 AM
To: civicaccess discuss
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Postal Code data

 

I would love to see this data released. I'd be willing to help wherever I could to see this happen.

Cheers,

Mike

ᐧ

Mike Sinclair

[phone]

OpenGovGear

opengovgear.com | @OpenGovGear

 

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 3:58 AM, john whelan <[hidden email]> wrote:

Is the UK postcode data available?  Does anyone have any feedback of the impact of releasing it?

Note to Tracy did Ireland use postcodes and was it released?

Thanks

 

Cheerio John

 

On 8 March 2016 at 22:22, Aaron Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:

New to this list, so my apologies if I’m not up to date on this issue.  I was looking at some of the past postings on liberating postal code files from Canada Post.

I was wondering if anyone is interested in pushing the federal government once again to release this data.  I’d be happy to be involved in such an initiative.  Have there been organized efforts in the past to win this fight?

Aaron
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[Aaron Freeman]

I’d be happy to draft a sign-on letter if folks on this list can work their networks to get a bunch of sign ons.  Pls let me know.

A few other things that would help:

1) Does anyone know of other jurisdictions (with relevant URLs) that release their postal code shape files — UK?  Ireland?  US?

2) What are some public interest applications (as specific as possible) that this data could be used for?  Any examples from other jurisdictions?  My own experience is with NGOs trying to use data to build their capacity, which I’m happy to provide as one example.  But would be good to have others.

3) Harvey - Would be great to have a municipal example.  How would making postal code shape files improve city operations?

On Mar 9, 2016, at 8:18 AM, Harvey Low <[hidden email]> wrote:

Yep I lurk. J  I ironically spend almost no time on social media on this topic but almost all my efforts working with local open data champions in Toronto like Richard Pietro and making our datasets available at City of Toronto as well as serving on the City’s Open Government Committee J We now have for example over 300 datasets in Wellbeing Toronto (www.toronto.ca/wellbeing) and this is only the beginning, not to mention  our ever growing Open Data Site (www.toronto.ca/open). We don’t market ourselves very well.  Anyways any I can help though on the pcode issue.

 

Harvey Low,  B.A.A., M.C.I.P.

Manager, Social Research & Information Management,

Social Development Finance & Administration Division,

City of Toronto
City Hall, 14th Floor, East Tower
100 Queen Street West
Toronto, ON M5H 2N2

416-392-8660
[hidden email]

 

 

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Trevor Twining
Sent: March-09-16 8:12 AM
To: civicaccess discuss
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Postal Code data

 

Long time lurker...I'm also interested and able to help. 

TT

On Mar 9, 2016, at 8:08 AM, Harvey Low <[hidden email]> wrote:

I hardly post here but on this – YES! We could use postal codes as an additional level of geo aggregation for Census  and Long Form variables. If there is any way I can help, please let me know!

 

 

Harvey Low,  B.A.A., M.C.I.P.

Manager, Social Research & Information Management,

Social Development Finance & Administration Division,

City of Toronto
City Hall, 14th Floor, East Tower
100 Queen Street West
Toronto, ON M5H 2N2

416-392-8660
[hidden email]

 

 

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mike Sinclair
Sent: March-09-16 7:06 AM
To: civicaccess discuss
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Postal Code data

 

I would love to see this data released. I'd be willing to help wherever I could to see this happen.

Cheers,

Mike

ᐧ

Mike Sinclair

[phone]

OpenGovGear

opengovgear.com | @OpenGovGear

 

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 3:58 AM, john whelan <[hidden email]> wrote:

Is the UK postcode data available?  Does anyone have any feedback of the impact of releasing it?

Note to Tracy did Ireland use postcodes and was it released?

Thanks

 

Cheerio John

 

On 8 March 2016 at 22:22, Aaron Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:

New to this list, so my apologies if I’m not up to date on this issue.  I was looking at some of the past postings on liberating postal code files from Canada Post.

I was wondering if anyone is interested in pushing the federal government once again to release this data.  I’d be happy to be involved in such an initiative.  Have there been organized efforts in the past to win this fight?

Aaron
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http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

 

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[Aaron Freeman]

The government’s Open Data initiative also posted the dataset for feedback three years ago.  It’s still an active site:  http://open.canada.ca/en/suggested-datasets/postal-code-database

It would be good to get a few more comments on this site urging the government to release the dataset.  (I’d like to cite the number of people who have asked for the data.)

Aa

On Mar 9, 2016, at 8:48 AM, Aaron Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:

I’d be happy to draft a sign-on letter if folks on this list can work their networks to get a bunch of sign ons.  Pls let me know.

A few other things that would help:

1) Does anyone know of other jurisdictions (with relevant URLs) that release their postal code shape files — UK?  Ireland?  US?

2) What are some public interest applications (as specific as possible) that this data could be used for?  Any examples from other jurisdictions?  My own experience is with NGOs trying to use data to build their capacity, which I’m happy to provide as one example.  But would be good to have others.

3) Harvey - Would be great to have a municipal example.  How would making postal code shape files improve city operations?

On Mar 9, 2016, at 8:18 AM, Harvey Low <[hidden email]> wrote:

Yep I lurk. J  I ironically spend almost no time on social media on this topic but almost all my efforts working with local open data champions in Toronto like Richard Pietro and making our datasets available at City of Toronto as well as serving on the City’s Open Government Committee J We now have for example over 300 datasets in Wellbeing Toronto (www.toronto.ca/wellbeing) and this is only the beginning, not to mention  our ever growing Open Data Site (www.toronto.ca/open). We don’t market ourselves very well.  Anyways any I can help though on the pcode issue.

 

Harvey Low,  B.A.A., M.C.I.P.

Manager, Social Research & Information Management,

Social Development Finance & Administration Division,

City of Toronto
City Hall, 14th Floor, East Tower
100 Queen Street West
Toronto, ON M5H 2N2

416-392-8660
[hidden email]

 

 

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Trevor Twining
Sent: March-09-16 8:12 AM
To: civicaccess discuss
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Postal Code data

 

Long time lurker...I'm also interested and able to help. 

TT

On Mar 9, 2016, at 8:08 AM, Harvey Low <[hidden email]> wrote:

I hardly post here but on this – YES! We could use postal codes as an additional level of geo aggregation for Census  and Long Form variables. If there is any way I can help, please let me know!

 

 

Harvey Low,  B.A.A., M.C.I.P.

Manager, Social Research & Information Management,

Social Development Finance & Administration Division,

City of Toronto
City Hall, 14th Floor, East Tower
100 Queen Street West
Toronto, ON M5H 2N2

416-392-8660
[hidden email]

 

 

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mike Sinclair
Sent: March-09-16 7:06 AM
To: civicaccess discuss
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Postal Code data

 

I would love to see this data released. I'd be willing to help wherever I could to see this happen.

Cheers,

Mike

ᐧ

Mike Sinclair

[phone]

OpenGovGear

opengovgear.com | @OpenGovGear

 

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 3:58 AM, john whelan <[hidden email]> wrote:

Is the UK postcode data available?  Does anyone have any feedback of the impact of releasing it?

Note to Tracy did Ireland use postcodes and was it released?

Thanks

 

Cheerio John

 

On 8 March 2016 at 22:22, Aaron Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:

New to this list, so my apologies if I’m not up to date on this issue.  I was looking at some of the past postings on liberating postal code files from Canada Post.

I was wondering if anyone is interested in pushing the federal government once again to release this data.  I’d be happy to be involved in such an initiative.  Have there been organized efforts in the past to win this fight?

Aaron
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[Russell McOrmond-4]

While not currently active, we had a petition http://www.digital-copyright.ca/edid/letter5

This related to the PCFRF database that Statistics Canada sold.  The problem with the campaign was that Statistics Canada wasn't the origin of the problem, Canada Post was.  Elections Canada, as well as the equivalent provincial agencies, all release their geospacial data for ridings.  It is a simple set of geospacially aware database queries to mix Canada Post and Elections Canada data to generate the PCFRF data.

This petition should have been directed at Canada Post, and I would be very happy to be involved with a petition that did so.   This service should not be part of any proprietary agency, so management of this public data set should be moved away from Canada Post or Canada Post should be disallowed through legislation to have data such as this be proprietary.

Other related articles on that site: http://www.digital-copyright.ca/search/node/pcfrf

On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 10:22 PM, Aaron Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:

New to this list, so my apologies if I’m not up to date on this issue.  I was looking at some of the past postings on liberating postal code files from Canada Post.

I was wondering if anyone is interested in pushing the federal government once again to release this data.  I’d be happy to be involved in such an initiative.  Have there been organized efforts in the past to win this fight?

Aaron
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[Tracey P. Lauriault]

Hi John;

The new post code in Ireland was just deployed last year and it was created by a semi state institution and subcontracted out to a company called Capita.  It is not a public data set.

The argument for Canada is important, since, the postal code is arguably a very important dataset for the functioning of our democracy as it informs the electoral districts, help you finding your MP and is a key determinant in knowing where to vote.  It is also used in relation to taxation analysis (FSA) and used extensive by Statistics Canada.  It is an indexical data set and I would argue it is infrastructure or framework data.

It is also a major money maker as all the big data firms, marketing lists and consumer targeted sales rest upon it.  

Russel McOrmond at Digital Copyright Canada has been working to get access to this for a long time - http://www.digital-copyright.ca/blog/2.

Finally there is currently ongoing litigation, 

"CIPPIC has filed a Statement of Defense on behalf of its client, Geolytica, in response to a lawsuit filed by the Canada Post Corporation in the Federal Court of Canada (File No. T-519-12) claiming that it owns copyright in its database of postal codes and that Geolytica has infringed that copyright by "crowd-sourcing" data for its own database of postal codes mapped to street addresses."

​And I am not sure where this case stands at the moment.

Aaron, you are in good company on what you would like to do.

Cheerio

Tracey ​

 

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 7:58 AM, john whelan <[hidden email]> wrote:

Is the UK postcode data available?  Does anyone have any feedback of the impact of releasing it?

Note to Tracy did Ireland use postcodes and was it released?

Thanks

Cheerio John

On 8 March 2016 at 22:22, Aaron Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:

New to this list, so my apologies if I’m not up to date on this issue.  I was looking at some of the past postings on liberating postal code files from Canada Post.

I was wondering if anyone is interested in pushing the federal government once again to release this data.  I’d be happy to be involved in such an initiative.  Have there been organized efforts in the past to win this fight?

Aaron
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[john whelan]

I strongly suspect that the UK postcodes have been released by OS https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/opendatadownload/products.html perhaps someone has made a study into the value add to the economy rather than the value to just the post office.

This one should have a strong economic argument.

Cheerio John

On 9 March 2016 at 09:36, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi John;

The new post code in Ireland was just deployed last year and it was created by a semi state institution and subcontracted out to a company called Capita.  It is not a public data set.

The argument for Canada is important, since, the postal code is arguably a very important dataset for the functioning of our democracy as it informs the electoral districts, help you finding your MP and is a key determinant in knowing where to vote.  It is also used in relation to taxation analysis (FSA) and used extensive by Statistics Canada.  It is an indexical data set and I would argue it is infrastructure or framework data.

It is also a major money maker as all the big data firms, marketing lists and consumer targeted sales rest upon it.  

Russel McOrmond at Digital Copyright Canada has been working to get access to this for a long time - http://www.digital-copyright.ca/blog/2.

Finally there is currently ongoing litigation, 

"CIPPIC has filed a Statement of Defense on behalf of its client, Geolytica, in response to a lawsuit filed by the Canada Post Corporation in the Federal Court of Canada (File No. T-519-12) claiming that it owns copyright in its database of postal codes and that Geolytica has infringed that copyright by "crowd-sourcing" data for its own database of postal codes mapped to street addresses."

​And I am not sure where this case stands at the moment.

Aaron, you are in good company on what you would like to do.

Cheerio

Tracey ​

 

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 7:58 AM, john whelan <[hidden email]> wrote:

Is the UK postcode data available?  Does anyone have any feedback of the impact of releasing it?

Note to Tracy did Ireland use postcodes and was it released?

Thanks

Cheerio John

On 8 March 2016 at 22:22, Aaron Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:

New to this list, so my apologies if I’m not up to date on this issue.  I was looking at some of the past postings on liberating postal code files from Canada Post.

I was wondering if anyone is interested in pushing the federal government once again to release this data.  I’d be happy to be involved in such an initiative.  Have there been organized efforts in the past to win this fight?

Aaron
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Tracey P. Lauriault

Assistant Professor 
Critical Media Studies and Big Data
Communication Studies
School of Journalism and Communication
Suite 4110, River Building
Carleton University
1125 Colonel By Drive
Ottawa (ON) K1S 5B6

<a href="tel:[phone]%20x7443" value="[phone]" target="_blank">1-613-520-2600 x7443
[hidden email]
@TraceyLauriault
Skype: Tracey.P.Lauriault

https://carleton.ca/sjc/people-archives/lauriault-tracey/

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[Aaron Freeman]

Here’s my draft.  For now, please let me know if you have any suggested edits.  Please use track changes.  

Once I get your edits, I’ll do a second round with a final draft for sign on, which you can post on social media and circulate within your networks to get sign ons.  But please don’t post until we’ve agreed on a final draft.

Thanks,

Aaron









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[Harvey Low]

Just to add to Tracey’s usual spot-on assessments, the Postal Code geography (in particular FSA, FSA+1 digit), would provide a level of data aggregation that minimizes sampling restrictions at the Census Tract and DA levels). It also provides a level of data aggregation that can be consistent across Municipalities for cross-municipal planning purposes, easily understood by the public, and in support of national strategic policy or social advocacy outcomes (e.g., National Housing initiatives, childcare etc).

 

We would use his geography as an additional level of sampling fur surveys as well.

 

 

Harvey Low,  B.A.A., M.C.I.P.

Manager, Social Research & Information Management,

Social Development Finance & Administration Division,

City of Toronto
City Hall, 14th Floor, East Tower
100 Queen Street West
Toronto, ON M5H 2N2

416-392-8660
[hidden email]

 

    

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tracey P. Lauriault
Sent: March-09-16 9:36 AM
To: civicaccess discuss
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Postal Code data

 

Hi John;

 

The new post code in Ireland was just deployed last year and it was created by a semi state institution and subcontracted out to a company called Capita.  It is not a public data set.

 

The argument for Canada is important, since, the postal code is arguably a very important dataset for the functioning of our democracy as it informs the electoral districts, help you finding your MP and is a key determinant in knowing where to vote.  It is also used in relation to taxation analysis (FSA) and used extensive by Statistics Canada.  It is an indexical data set and I would argue it is infrastructure or framework data.

 

It is also a major money maker as all the big data firms, marketing lists and consumer targeted sales rest upon it.  

 

Russel McOrmond at Digital Copyright Canada has been working to get access to this for a long time - http://www.digital-copyright.ca/blog/2.

 

Finally there is currently ongoing litigation, 

"CIPPIC has filed a Statement of Defense on behalf of its client, Geolytica, in response to a lawsuit filed by the Canada Post Corporation in the Federal Court of Canada (File No. T-519-12) claiming that it owns copyright in its database of postal codes and that Geolytica has infringed that copyright by "crowd-sourcing" data for its own database of postal codes mapped to street addresses."

 

​And I am not sure where this case stands at the moment.

 

Aaron, you are in good company on what you would like to do.

 

Cheerio

Tracey ​

 

 

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 7:58 AM, john whelan <[hidden email]> wrote:

Is the UK postcode data available?  Does anyone have any feedback of the impact of releasing it?

Note to Tracy did Ireland use postcodes and was it released?

Thanks

 

Cheerio John

 

On 8 March 2016 at 22:22, Aaron Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:

New to this list, so my apologies if I’m not up to date on this issue.  I was looking at some of the past postings on liberating postal code files from Canada Post.

I was wondering if anyone is interested in pushing the federal government once again to release this data.  I’d be happy to be involved in such an initiative.  Have there been organized efforts in the past to win this fight?

Aaron
_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

 

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

 

--

Tracey P. Lauriault

Assistant Professor 

Critical Media Studies and Big Data

Communication Studies

School of Journalism and Communication

Suite 4110, River Building

Carleton University

1125 Colonel By Drive

Ottawa (ON) K1S 5B6

1-613-520-2600 x7443
[hidden email]
@TraceyLauriault
Skype: Tracey.P.Lauriault

https://carleton.ca/sjc/people-archives/lauriault-tracey/

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

[Tracey P. Lauriault]

Here is the url to the Postcode of Great Britain - https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/business-and-government/products/code-point-open.html

GPS was opened and look what happened to the development of LBS, wearables and mobility in general.

Postal Codes help with routing etc. and all the good things I mentioned earlier, so both corporate and public benefit, while FSA are foundational for research and all the things that Harvey is talking about.

The GB Postcode data in the Ordnance Survey would be analysis of the FSA.

Aaron, working with Russel is really important, he is our national expert on this file.  Also, Canada Post is a crown corporation, so not sure what the national TBS open data/open government jurisdictional divide is on enforcement, irrespective, making sure your letter also goes to them is important.

Cheerio

t

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 11:17 AM, Harvey Low <[hidden email]> wrote:

Just to add to Tracey’s usual spot-on assessments, the Postal Code geography (in particular FSA, FSA+1 digit), would provide a level of data aggregation that minimizes sampling restrictions at the Census Tract and DA levels). It also provides a level of data aggregation that can be consistent across Municipalities for cross-municipal planning purposes, easily understood by the public, and in support of national strategic policy or social advocacy outcomes (e.g., National Housing initiatives, childcare etc).

 

We would use his geography as an additional level of sampling fur surveys as well.

 

 

Harvey Low,  B.A.A., M.C.I.P.

Manager, Social Research & Information Management,

Social Development Finance & Administration Division,

City of Toronto
City Hall, 14th Floor, East Tower
100 Queen Street West
Toronto, ON M5H 2N2

<a href="tel:[phone]" value="[phone]" target="_blank">416-392-8660
[hidden email]

 

    

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tracey P. Lauriault
Sent: March-09-16 9:36 AM
To: civicaccess discuss
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Postal Code data

 

Hi John;

 

The new post code in Ireland was just deployed last year and it was created by a semi state institution and subcontracted out to a company called Capita.  It is not a public data set.

 

The argument for Canada is important, since, the postal code is arguably a very important dataset for the functioning of our democracy as it informs the electoral districts, help you finding your MP and is a key determinant in knowing where to vote.  It is also used in relation to taxation analysis (FSA) and used extensive by Statistics Canada.  It is an indexical data set and I would argue it is infrastructure or framework data.

 

It is also a major money maker as all the big data firms, marketing lists and consumer targeted sales rest upon it.  

 

Russel McOrmond at Digital Copyright Canada has been working to get access to this for a long time - http://www.digital-copyright.ca/blog/2.

 

Finally there is currently ongoing litigation, 

"CIPPIC has filed a Statement of Defense on behalf of its client, Geolytica, in response to a lawsuit filed by the Canada Post Corporation in the Federal Court of Canada (File No. T-519-12) claiming that it owns copyright in its database of postal codes and that Geolytica has infringed that copyright by "crowd-sourcing" data for its own database of postal codes mapped to street addresses."

 

​And I am not sure where this case stands at the moment.

 

Aaron, you are in good company on what you would like to do.

 

Cheerio

Tracey ​

 

 

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 7:58 AM, john whelan <[hidden email]> wrote:

Is the UK postcode data available?  Does anyone have any feedback of the impact of releasing it?

Note to Tracy did Ireland use postcodes and was it released?

Thanks

 

Cheerio John

 

On 8 March 2016 at 22:22, Aaron Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:

New to this list, so my apologies if I’m not up to date on this issue.  I was looking at some of the past postings on liberating postal code files from Canada Post.

I was wondering if anyone is interested in pushing the federal government once again to release this data.  I’d be happy to be involved in such an initiative.  Have there been organized efforts in the past to win this fight?

Aaron
_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

 

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

 

--

Tracey P. Lauriault

Assistant Professor 

Critical Media Studies and Big Data

Communication Studies

School of Journalism and Communication

Suite 4110, River Building

Carleton University

1125 Colonel By Drive

Ottawa (ON) K1S 5B6

<a href="tel:[phone]%20x7443" value="[phone]" target="_blank">1-613-520-2600 x7443
[hidden email]
@TraceyLauriault
Skype: Tracey.P.Lauriault

https://carleton.ca/sjc/people-archives/lauriault-tracey/

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

--

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

[Tracey P. Lauriault]

Aaron;

I see your letter is to TBS, it also needs to go to Canada Post.

Here is the URL to the FSA https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2011/geo/bound-limit/bound-limit-2011-eng.cfm, you will note the Canada Post copyright on this dbase, therefore it is not an open dataset but it is an accessible dataset.

In terms of the postal code, be sure to specify exactly what you want.  Your letter at the moment does not, and you could just get a list of postal codes and no coordinates, do you want it accessible so that you can embed into apps, then you need some sort of API, do you want a point file or a bounded polygon etc.

Again, read up on the jurisdictional divide between tbs and a crown corporation.  Also, would be good to know, seperately what the revenu stream is for canada post in relation to this database and what are the implications for the loss of revenue.

In Ireland for example, the Ordnance Survey survived the economic crash because of its crown corporation like structure, it was protected from the gov cutbacks as it had a revenue stream that allowed it to stay current, kitted and have professional staff and to innovate.  They are changing and will be subsumed within national government, and the uncertainties related to that may mean not only a loss of autonomy, but also budgetary issues.  

Russel, what are your thoughts on the letter and what should be asked in it?

Cheerio

t

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 1:08 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:

Here is the url to the Postcode of Great Britain - https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/business-and-government/products/code-point-open.html

GPS was opened and look what happened to the development of LBS, wearables and mobility in general.

Postal Codes help with routing etc. and all the good things I mentioned earlier, so both corporate and public benefit, while FSA are foundational for research and all the things that Harvey is talking about.

The GB Postcode data in the Ordnance Survey would be analysis of the FSA.

Aaron, working with Russel is really important, he is our national expert on this file.  Also, Canada Post is a crown corporation, so not sure what the national TBS open data/open government jurisdictional divide is on enforcement, irrespective, making sure your letter also goes to them is important.

Cheerio

t

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 11:17 AM, Harvey Low <[hidden email]> wrote:

Just to add to Tracey’s usual spot-on assessments, the Postal Code geography (in particular FSA, FSA+1 digit), would provide a level of data aggregation that minimizes sampling restrictions at the Census Tract and DA levels). It also provides a level of data aggregation that can be consistent across Municipalities for cross-municipal planning purposes, easily understood by the public, and in support of national strategic policy or social advocacy outcomes (e.g., National Housing initiatives, childcare etc).

 

We would use his geography as an additional level of sampling fur surveys as well.

 

 

Harvey Low,  B.A.A., M.C.I.P.

Manager, Social Research & Information Management,

Social Development Finance & Administration Division,

City of Toronto
City Hall, 14th Floor, East Tower
100 Queen Street West
Toronto, ON M5H 2N2

<a href="tel:[phone]" value="[phone]" target="_blank">416-392-8660
[hidden email]

 

    

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tracey P. Lauriault
Sent: March-09-16 9:36 AM
To: civicaccess discuss
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Postal Code data

 

Hi John;

 

The new post code in Ireland was just deployed last year and it was created by a semi state institution and subcontracted out to a company called Capita.  It is not a public data set.

 

The argument for Canada is important, since, the postal code is arguably a very important dataset for the functioning of our democracy as it informs the electoral districts, help you finding your MP and is a key determinant in knowing where to vote.  It is also used in relation to taxation analysis (FSA) and used extensive by Statistics Canada.  It is an indexical data set and I would argue it is infrastructure or framework data.

 

It is also a major money maker as all the big data firms, marketing lists and consumer targeted sales rest upon it.  

 

Russel McOrmond at Digital Copyright Canada has been working to get access to this for a long time - http://www.digital-copyright.ca/blog/2.

 

Finally there is currently ongoing litigation, 

"CIPPIC has filed a Statement of Defense on behalf of its client, Geolytica, in response to a lawsuit filed by the Canada Post Corporation in the Federal Court of Canada (File No. T-519-12) claiming that it owns copyright in its database of postal codes and that Geolytica has infringed that copyright by "crowd-sourcing" data for its own database of postal codes mapped to street addresses."

 

​And I am not sure where this case stands at the moment.

 

Aaron, you are in good company on what you would like to do.

 

Cheerio

Tracey ​

 

 

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 7:58 AM, john whelan <[hidden email]> wrote:

Is the UK postcode data available?  Does anyone have any feedback of the impact of releasing it?

Note to Tracy did Ireland use postcodes and was it released?

Thanks

 

Cheerio John

 

On 8 March 2016 at 22:22, Aaron Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:

New to this list, so my apologies if I’m not up to date on this issue.  I was looking at some of the past postings on liberating postal code files from Canada Post.

I was wondering if anyone is interested in pushing the federal government once again to release this data.  I’d be happy to be involved in such an initiative.  Have there been organized efforts in the past to win this fight?

Aaron
_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

 

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

 

--

Tracey P. Lauriault

Assistant Professor 

Critical Media Studies and Big Data

Communication Studies

School of Journalism and Communication

Suite 4110, River Building

Carleton University

1125 Colonel By Drive

Ottawa (ON) K1S 5B6

<a href="tel:[phone]%20x7443" value="[phone]" target="_blank">1-613-520-2600 x7443
[hidden email]
@TraceyLauriault
Skype: Tracey.P.Lauriault

https://carleton.ca/sjc/people-archives/lauriault-tracey/

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

--

Tracey P. Lauriault

Assistant Professor 
Critical Media Studies and Big Data
Communication Studies
School of Journalism and Communication
Suite 4110, River Building
Carleton University
1125 Colonel By Drive
Ottawa (ON) K1S 5B6

<a href="tel:[phone]%20x7443" value="[phone]" target="_blank">1-613-520-2600 x7443
[hidden email]
@TraceyLauriault
Skype: Tracey.P.Lauriault

https://carleton.ca/sjc/people-archives/lauriault-tracey/

--

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

[Aaron Freeman]

Good point on calling for it to be open and not just accessilble.  

There’s a cc at the end for both the CEO of Canada Post and the PM.  The letter calls for shapefiles and I’ve added “other attributes", but I can make it clearer a the end by stating "including shapefiles and other attributes”.  

I spoke with David Fewer at CIPPIC and they like the letter and will sign on.

Aa

On Mar 9, 2016, at 12:20 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:

Aaron;

I see your letter is to TBS, it also needs to go to Canada Post.

Here is the URL to the FSA https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2011/geo/bound-limit/bound-limit-2011-eng.cfm, you will note the Canada Post copyright on this dbase, therefore it is not an open dataset but it is an accessible dataset.

In terms of the postal code, be sure to specify exactly what you want.  Your letter at the moment does not, and you could just get a list of postal codes and no coordinates, do you want it accessible so that you can embed into apps, then you need some sort of API, do you want a point file or a bounded polygon etc.

Again, read up on the jurisdictional divide between tbs and a crown corporation.  Also, would be good to know, seperately what the revenu stream is for canada post in relation to this database and what are the implications for the loss of revenue.

In Ireland for example, the Ordnance Survey survived the economic crash because of its crown corporation like structure, it was protected from the gov cutbacks as it had a revenue stream that allowed it to stay current, kitted and have professional staff and to innovate.  They are changing and will be subsumed within national government, and the uncertainties related to that may mean not only a loss of autonomy, but also budgetary issues.  

Russel, what are your thoughts on the letter and what should be asked in it?

Cheerio

t

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 1:08 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:

Here is the url to the Postcode of Great Britain - https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/business-and-government/products/code-point-open.html

GPS was opened and look what happened to the development of LBS, wearables and mobility in general.

Postal Codes help with routing etc. and all the good things I mentioned earlier, so both corporate and public benefit, while FSA are foundational for research and all the things that Harvey is talking about.

The GB Postcode data in the Ordnance Survey would be analysis of the FSA.

Aaron, working with Russel is really important, he is our national expert on this file.  Also, Canada Post is a crown corporation, so not sure what the national TBS open data/open government jurisdictional divide is on enforcement, irrespective, making sure your letter also goes to them is important.

Cheerio

t

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 11:17 AM, Harvey Low <[hidden email]> wrote:

Just to add to Tracey’s usual spot-on assessments, the Postal Code geography (in particular FSA, FSA+1 digit), would provide a level of data aggregation that minimizes sampling restrictions at the Census Tract and DA levels). It also provides a level of data aggregation that can be consistent across Municipalities for cross-municipal planning purposes, easily understood by the public, and in support of national strategic policy or social advocacy outcomes (e.g., National Housing initiatives, childcare etc).

 

We would use his geography as an additional level of sampling fur surveys as well.

 

 

Harvey Low,  B.A.A., M.C.I.P.

Manager, Social Research & Information Management,

Social Development Finance & Administration Division,

City of Toronto
City Hall, 14th Floor, East Tower
100 Queen Street West
Toronto, ON M5H 2N2

<a href="tel:[phone]" value="[phone]" target="_blank">416-392-8660
[hidden email]

 

    

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tracey P. Lauriault
Sent: March-09-16 9:36 AM
To: civicaccess discuss
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Postal Code data

 

Hi John;

 

The new post code in Ireland was just deployed last year and it was created by a semi state institution and subcontracted out to a company called Capita.  It is not a public data set.

 

The argument for Canada is important, since, the postal code is arguably a very important dataset for the functioning of our democracy as it informs the electoral districts, help you finding your MP and is a key determinant in knowing where to vote.  It is also used in relation to taxation analysis (FSA) and used extensive by Statistics Canada.  It is an indexical data set and I would argue it is infrastructure or framework data.

 

It is also a major money maker as all the big data firms, marketing lists and consumer targeted sales rest upon it.  

 

Russel McOrmond at Digital Copyright Canada has been working to get access to this for a long time - http://www.digital-copyright.ca/blog/2.

 

Finally there is currently ongoing litigation, 

"CIPPIC has filed a Statement of Defense on behalf of its client, Geolytica, in response to a lawsuit filed by the Canada Post Corporation in the Federal Court of Canada (File No. T-519-12) claiming that it owns copyright in its database of postal codes and that Geolytica has infringed that copyright by "crowd-sourcing" data for its own database of postal codes mapped to street addresses."

 

​And I am not sure where this case stands at the moment.

 

Aaron, you are in good company on what you would like to do.

 

Cheerio

Tracey ​

 

 

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 7:58 AM, john whelan <[hidden email]> wrote:

Is the UK postcode data available?  Does anyone have any feedback of the impact of releasing it?

Note to Tracy did Ireland use postcodes and was it released?

Thanks

 

Cheerio John

 

On 8 March 2016 at 22:22, Aaron Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:

New to this list, so my apologies if I’m not up to date on this issue.  I was looking at some of the past postings on liberating postal code files from Canada Post.

I was wondering if anyone is interested in pushing the federal government once again to release this data.  I’d be happy to be involved in such an initiative.  Have there been organized efforts in the past to win this fight?

Aaron
_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

 

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

 

--

Tracey P. Lauriault

Assistant Professor 

Critical Media Studies and Big Data

Communication Studies

School of Journalism and Communication

Suite 4110, River Building

Carleton University

1125 Colonel By Drive

Ottawa (ON) K1S 5B6

<a href="tel:[phone]%20x7443" value="[phone]" target="_blank">1-613-520-2600 x7443
[hidden email]
@TraceyLauriault
Skype: Tracey.P.Lauriault

https://carleton.ca/sjc/people-archives/lauriault-tracey/

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

-- 

Tracey P. Lauriault

Assistant Professor 
Critical Media Studies and Big Data
Communication Studies
School of Journalism and Communication
Suite 4110, River Building
Carleton University
1125 Colonel By Drive
Ottawa (ON) K1S 5B6

<a href="tel:[phone]%20x7443" value="[phone]" target="_blank">1-613-520-2600 x7443
[hidden email]
@TraceyLauriault
Skype: Tracey.P.Lauriault

https://carleton.ca/sjc/people-archives/lauriault-tracey/

-- 

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

[Tracey P. Lauriault]

you need more than shape files, expand your format ask, see the formats for the FSA I sent.

Also, there could be wsf, geojson, etc.

The letter needs to also be addressed to Canada Post, Treasury Board may not have jurisdiction over it.

Also, Russel is the expert so be sure to get his input, perhaps a phone conversation.

I am happy to sing your letter if you are looking for co-signatory folks - Open North.  Any others?

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Aaron Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:

Good point on calling for it to be open and not just accessilble.  

There’s a cc at the end for both the CEO of Canada Post and the PM.  The letter calls for shapefiles and I’ve added “other attributes", but I can make it clearer a the end by stating "including shapefiles and other attributes”.  

I spoke with David Fewer at CIPPIC and they like the letter and will sign on.

Aa

On Mar 9, 2016, at 12:20 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:

Aaron;

I see your letter is to TBS, it also needs to go to Canada Post.

Here is the URL to the FSA https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2011/geo/bound-limit/bound-limit-2011-eng.cfm, you will note the Canada Post copyright on this dbase, therefore it is not an open dataset but it is an accessible dataset.

In terms of the postal code, be sure to specify exactly what you want.  Your letter at the moment does not, and you could just get a list of postal codes and no coordinates, do you want it accessible so that you can embed into apps, then you need some sort of API, do you want a point file or a bounded polygon etc.

Again, read up on the jurisdictional divide between tbs and a crown corporation.  Also, would be good to know, seperately what the revenu stream is for canada post in relation to this database and what are the implications for the loss of revenue.

In Ireland for example, the Ordnance Survey survived the economic crash because of its crown corporation like structure, it was protected from the gov cutbacks as it had a revenue stream that allowed it to stay current, kitted and have professional staff and to innovate.  They are changing and will be subsumed within national government, and the uncertainties related to that may mean not only a loss of autonomy, but also budgetary issues.  

Russel, what are your thoughts on the letter and what should be asked in it?

Cheerio

t

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 1:08 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:

Here is the url to the Postcode of Great Britain - https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/business-and-government/products/code-point-open.html

GPS was opened and look what happened to the development of LBS, wearables and mobility in general.

Postal Codes help with routing etc. and all the good things I mentioned earlier, so both corporate and public benefit, while FSA are foundational for research and all the things that Harvey is talking about.

The GB Postcode data in the Ordnance Survey would be analysis of the FSA.

Aaron, working with Russel is really important, he is our national expert on this file.  Also, Canada Post is a crown corporation, so not sure what the national TBS open data/open government jurisdictional divide is on enforcement, irrespective, making sure your letter also goes to them is important.

Cheerio

t

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 11:17 AM, Harvey Low <[hidden email]> wrote:

Just to add to Tracey’s usual spot-on assessments, the Postal Code geography (in particular FSA, FSA+1 digit), would provide a level of data aggregation that minimizes sampling restrictions at the Census Tract and DA levels). It also provides a level of data aggregation that can be consistent across Municipalities for cross-municipal planning purposes, easily understood by the public, and in support of national strategic policy or social advocacy outcomes (e.g., National Housing initiatives, childcare etc).

 

We would use his geography as an additional level of sampling fur surveys as well.

 

 

Harvey Low,  B.A.A., M.C.I.P.

Manager, Social Research & Information Management,

Social Development Finance & Administration Division,

City of Toronto
City Hall, 14th Floor, East Tower
100 Queen Street West
Toronto, ON M5H 2N2

<a href="tel:[phone]" value="[phone]" target="_blank">416-392-8660
[hidden email]

 

    

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tracey P. Lauriault
Sent: March-09-16 9:36 AM
To: civicaccess discuss
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Postal Code data

 

Hi John;

 

The new post code in Ireland was just deployed last year and it was created by a semi state institution and subcontracted out to a company called Capita.  It is not a public data set.

 

The argument for Canada is important, since, the postal code is arguably a very important dataset for the functioning of our democracy as it informs the electoral districts, help you finding your MP and is a key determinant in knowing where to vote.  It is also used in relation to taxation analysis (FSA) and used extensive by Statistics Canada.  It is an indexical data set and I would argue it is infrastructure or framework data.

 

It is also a major money maker as all the big data firms, marketing lists and consumer targeted sales rest upon it.  

 

Russel McOrmond at Digital Copyright Canada has been working to get access to this for a long time - http://www.digital-copyright.ca/blog/2.

 

Finally there is currently ongoing litigation, 

"CIPPIC has filed a Statement of Defense on behalf of its client, Geolytica, in response to a lawsuit filed by the Canada Post Corporation in the Federal Court of Canada (File No. T-519-12) claiming that it owns copyright in its database of postal codes and that Geolytica has infringed that copyright by "crowd-sourcing" data for its own database of postal codes mapped to street addresses."

 

​And I am not sure where this case stands at the moment.

 

Aaron, you are in good company on what you would like to do.

 

Cheerio

Tracey ​

 

 

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 7:58 AM, john whelan <[hidden email]> wrote:

Is the UK postcode data available?  Does anyone have any feedback of the impact of releasing it?

Note to Tracy did Ireland use postcodes and was it released?

Thanks

 

Cheerio John

 

On 8 March 2016 at 22:22, Aaron Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:

New to this list, so my apologies if I’m not up to date on this issue.  I was looking at some of the past postings on liberating postal code files from Canada Post.

I was wondering if anyone is interested in pushing the federal government once again to release this data.  I’d be happy to be involved in such an initiative.  Have there been organized efforts in the past to win this fight?

Aaron
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Tracey P. Lauriault

Assistant Professor 

Critical Media Studies and Big Data

Communication Studies

School of Journalism and Communication

Suite 4110, River Building

Carleton University

1125 Colonel By Drive

Ottawa (ON) K1S 5B6

<a href="tel:[phone]%20x7443" value="[phone]" target="_blank">1-613-520-2600 x7443
[hidden email]
@TraceyLauriault
Skype: Tracey.P.Lauriault

https://carleton.ca/sjc/people-archives/lauriault-tracey/

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-- 

Tracey P. Lauriault

Assistant Professor 
Critical Media Studies and Big Data
Communication Studies
School of Journalism and Communication
Suite 4110, River Building
Carleton University
1125 Colonel By Drive
Ottawa (ON) K1S 5B6

<a href="tel:[phone]%20x7443" value="[phone]" target="_blank">1-613-520-2600 x7443
[hidden email]
@TraceyLauriault
Skype: Tracey.P.Lauriault

https://carleton.ca/sjc/people-archives/lauriault-tracey/

-- 

Tracey P. Lauriault

Assistant Professor 
Critical Media Studies and Big Data
Communication Studies
School of Journalism and Communication
Suite 4110, River Building
Carleton University
1125 Colonel By Drive
Ottawa (ON) K1S 5B6

<a href="tel:[phone]%20x7443" value="[phone]" target="_blank">1-613-520-2600 x7443
[hidden email]
@TraceyLauriault
Skype: Tracey.P.Lauriault

https://carleton.ca/sjc/people-archives/lauriault-tracey/

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[Colleen Hardwick]

We, at PlaceSpeak, have likewise been asking for this data for years. Please add us to the list to sign the letter.

Best,

Colleen

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 10:30 AM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:

you need more than shape files, expand your format ask, see the formats for the FSA I sent.

Also, there could be wsf, geojson, etc.

The letter needs to also be addressed to Canada Post, Treasury Board may not have jurisdiction over it.

Also, Russel is the expert so be sure to get his input, perhaps a phone conversation.

I am happy to sing your letter if you are looking for co-signatory folks - Open North.  Any others?

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Aaron Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:

Good point on calling for it to be open and not just accessilble.  

There’s a cc at the end for both the CEO of Canada Post and the PM.  The letter calls for shapefiles and I’ve added “other attributes", but I can make it clearer a the end by stating "including shapefiles and other attributes”.  

I spoke with David Fewer at CIPPIC and they like the letter and will sign on.

Aa

On Mar 9, 2016, at 12:20 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:

Aaron;

I see your letter is to TBS, it also needs to go to Canada Post.

Here is the URL to the FSA https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2011/geo/bound-limit/bound-limit-2011-eng.cfm, you will note the Canada Post copyright on this dbase, therefore it is not an open dataset but it is an accessible dataset.

In terms of the postal code, be sure to specify exactly what you want.  Your letter at the moment does not, and you could just get a list of postal codes and no coordinates, do you want it accessible so that you can embed into apps, then you need some sort of API, do you want a point file or a bounded polygon etc.

Again, read up on the jurisdictional divide between tbs and a crown corporation.  Also, would be good to know, seperately what the revenu stream is for canada post in relation to this database and what are the implications for the loss of revenue.

In Ireland for example, the Ordnance Survey survived the economic crash because of its crown corporation like structure, it was protected from the gov cutbacks as it had a revenue stream that allowed it to stay current, kitted and have professional staff and to innovate.  They are changing and will be subsumed within national government, and the uncertainties related to that may mean not only a loss of autonomy, but also budgetary issues.  

Russel, what are your thoughts on the letter and what should be asked in it?

Cheerio

t

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 1:08 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:

Here is the url to the Postcode of Great Britain - https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/business-and-government/products/code-point-open.html

GPS was opened and look what happened to the development of LBS, wearables and mobility in general.

Postal Codes help with routing etc. and all the good things I mentioned earlier, so both corporate and public benefit, while FSA are foundational for research and all the things that Harvey is talking about.

The GB Postcode data in the Ordnance Survey would be analysis of the FSA.

Aaron, working with Russel is really important, he is our national expert on this file.  Also, Canada Post is a crown corporation, so not sure what the national TBS open data/open government jurisdictional divide is on enforcement, irrespective, making sure your letter also goes to them is important.

Cheerio

t

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 11:17 AM, Harvey Low <[hidden email]> wrote:

Just to add to Tracey’s usual spot-on assessments, the Postal Code geography (in particular FSA, FSA+1 digit), would provide a level of data aggregation that minimizes sampling restrictions at the Census Tract and DA levels). It also provides a level of data aggregation that can be consistent across Municipalities for cross-municipal planning purposes, easily understood by the public, and in support of national strategic policy or social advocacy outcomes (e.g., National Housing initiatives, childcare etc).

 

We would use his geography as an additional level of sampling fur surveys as well.

 

 

Harvey Low,  B.A.A., M.C.I.P.

Manager, Social Research & Information Management,

Social Development Finance & Administration Division,

City of Toronto
City Hall, 14th Floor, East Tower
100 Queen Street West
Toronto, ON M5H 2N2

<a href="tel:[phone]" value="[phone]" target="_blank">416-392-8660
[hidden email]

 

    

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tracey P. Lauriault
Sent: March-09-16 9:36 AM
To: civicaccess discuss
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Postal Code data

 

Hi John;

 

The new post code in Ireland was just deployed last year and it was created by a semi state institution and subcontracted out to a company called Capita.  It is not a public data set.

 

The argument for Canada is important, since, the postal code is arguably a very important dataset for the functioning of our democracy as it informs the electoral districts, help you finding your MP and is a key determinant in knowing where to vote.  It is also used in relation to taxation analysis (FSA) and used extensive by Statistics Canada.  It is an indexical data set and I would argue it is infrastructure or framework data.

 

It is also a major money maker as all the big data firms, marketing lists and consumer targeted sales rest upon it.  

 

Russel McOrmond at Digital Copyright Canada has been working to get access to this for a long time - http://www.digital-copyright.ca/blog/2.

 

Finally there is currently ongoing litigation, 

"CIPPIC has filed a Statement of Defense on behalf of its client, Geolytica, in response to a lawsuit filed by the Canada Post Corporation in the Federal Court of Canada (File No. T-519-12) claiming that it owns copyright in its database of postal codes and that Geolytica has infringed that copyright by "crowd-sourcing" data for its own database of postal codes mapped to street addresses."

 

​And I am not sure where this case stands at the moment.

 

Aaron, you are in good company on what you would like to do.

 

Cheerio

Tracey ​

 

 

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 7:58 AM, john whelan <[hidden email]> wrote:

Is the UK postcode data available?  Does anyone have any feedback of the impact of releasing it?

Note to Tracy did Ireland use postcodes and was it released?

Thanks

 

Cheerio John

 

On 8 March 2016 at 22:22, Aaron Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:

New to this list, so my apologies if I’m not up to date on this issue.  I was looking at some of the past postings on liberating postal code files from Canada Post.

I was wondering if anyone is interested in pushing the federal government once again to release this data.  I’d be happy to be involved in such an initiative.  Have there been organized efforts in the past to win this fight?

Aaron
_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

 

--

Tracey P. Lauriault

Assistant Professor 

Critical Media Studies and Big Data

Communication Studies

School of Journalism and Communication

Suite 4110, River Building

Carleton University

1125 Colonel By Drive

Ottawa (ON) K1S 5B6

<a href="tel:[phone]%20x7443" value="[phone]" target="_blank">1-613-520-2600 x7443
[hidden email]
@TraceyLauriault
Skype: Tracey.P.Lauriault

https://carleton.ca/sjc/people-archives/lauriault-tracey/

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

-- 

Tracey P. Lauriault

Assistant Professor 
Critical Media Studies and Big Data
Communication Studies
School of Journalism and Communication
Suite 4110, River Building
Carleton University
1125 Colonel By Drive
Ottawa (ON) K1S 5B6

<a href="tel:[phone]%20x7443" value="[phone]" target="_blank">1-613-520-2600 x7443
[hidden email]
@TraceyLauriault
Skype: Tracey.P.Lauriault

https://carleton.ca/sjc/people-archives/lauriault-tracey/

-- 

Tracey P. Lauriault

Assistant Professor 
Critical Media Studies and Big Data
Communication Studies
School of Journalism and Communication
Suite 4110, River Building
Carleton University
1125 Colonel By Drive
Ottawa (ON) K1S 5B6

<a href="tel:[phone]%20x7443" value="[phone]" target="_blank">1-613-520-2600 x7443
[hidden email]
@TraceyLauriault
Skype: Tracey.P.Lauriault

https://carleton.ca/sjc/people-archives/lauriault-tracey/

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

--

Tracey P. Lauriault

Assistant Professor 
Critical Media Studies and Big Data
Communication Studies
School of Journalism and Communication
Suite 4110, River Building
Carleton University
1125 Colonel By Drive
Ottawa (ON) K1S 5B6

<a href="tel:[phone]%20x7443" value="[phone]" target="_blank">1-613-520-2600 x7443
[hidden email]
@TraceyLauriault
Skype: Tracey.P.Lauriault

https://carleton.ca/sjc/people-archives/lauriault-tracey/

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

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[James McKinney-4]

To clarify: Canada Post (or the minister responsible, Judy Foote [1]) would have to make the data open. TBS has no jurisdiction over that Crown corporation. They can be cc’d though.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minister_responsible_for_Canada_Post_Corporation

On Mar 9, 2016, at 1:30 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:

you need more than shape files, expand your format ask, see the formats for the FSA I sent.

Also, there could be wsf, geojson, etc.

The letter needs to also be addressed to Canada Post, Treasury Board may not have jurisdiction over it.

Also, Russel is the expert so be sure to get his input, perhaps a phone conversation.

I am happy to sing your letter if you are looking for co-signatory folks - Open North.  Any others?

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Aaron Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:

Good point on calling for it to be open and not just accessilble.  

There’s a cc at the end for both the CEO of Canada Post and the PM.  The letter calls for shapefiles and I’ve added “other attributes", but I can make it clearer a the end by stating "including shapefiles and other attributes”.  

I spoke with David Fewer at CIPPIC and they like the letter and will sign on.

Aa

On Mar 9, 2016, at 12:20 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:

Aaron;

I see your letter is to TBS, it also needs to go to Canada Post.

Here is the URL to the FSA https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2011/geo/bound-limit/bound-limit-2011-eng.cfm, you will note the Canada Post copyright on this dbase, therefore it is not an open dataset but it is an accessible dataset.

In terms of the postal code, be sure to specify exactly what you want.  Your letter at the moment does not, and you could just get a list of postal codes and no coordinates, do you want it accessible so that you can embed into apps, then you need some sort of API, do you want a point file or a bounded polygon etc.

Again, read up on the jurisdictional divide between tbs and a crown corporation.  Also, would be good to know, seperately what the revenu stream is for canada post in relation to this database and what are the implications for the loss of revenue.

In Ireland for example, the Ordnance Survey survived the economic crash because of its crown corporation like structure, it was protected from the gov cutbacks as it had a revenue stream that allowed it to stay current, kitted and have professional staff and to innovate.  They are changing and will be subsumed within national government, and the uncertainties related to that may mean not only a loss of autonomy, but also budgetary issues.  

Russel, what are your thoughts on the letter and what should be asked in it?

Cheerio

t

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 1:08 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:

Here is the url to the Postcode of Great Britain - https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/business-and-government/products/code-point-open.html

GPS was opened and look what happened to the development of LBS, wearables and mobility in general.

Postal Codes help with routing etc. and all the good things I mentioned earlier, so both corporate and public benefit, while FSA are foundational for research and all the things that Harvey is talking about.

The GB Postcode data in the Ordnance Survey would be analysis of the FSA.

Aaron, working with Russel is really important, he is our national expert on this file.  Also, Canada Post is a crown corporation, so not sure what the national TBS open data/open government jurisdictional divide is on enforcement, irrespective, making sure your letter also goes to them is important.

Cheerio

t

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 11:17 AM, Harvey Low <[hidden email]> wrote:

Just to add to Tracey’s usual spot-on assessments, the Postal Code geography (in particular FSA, FSA+1 digit), would provide a level of data aggregation that minimizes sampling restrictions at the Census Tract and DA levels). It also provides a level of data aggregation that can be consistent across Municipalities for cross-municipal planning purposes, easily understood by the public, and in support of national strategic policy or social advocacy outcomes (e.g., National Housing initiatives, childcare etc).

 

We would use his geography as an additional level of sampling fur surveys as well.

 

 

Harvey Low,  B.A.A., M.C.I.P.

Manager, Social Research & Information Management,

Social Development Finance & Administration Division,

City of Toronto
City Hall, 14th Floor, East Tower
100 Queen Street West
Toronto, ON M5H 2N2

<a href="tel:[phone]" value="[phone]" target="_blank" class="">416-392-8660
[hidden email]

 

    

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tracey P. Lauriault
Sent: March-09-16 9:36 AM
To: civicaccess discuss
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Postal Code data

 

Hi John;

 

The new post code in Ireland was just deployed last year and it was created by a semi state institution and subcontracted out to a company called Capita.  It is not a public data set.

 

The argument for Canada is important, since, the postal code is arguably a very important dataset for the functioning of our democracy as it informs the electoral districts, help you finding your MP and is a key determinant in knowing where to vote.  It is also used in relation to taxation analysis (FSA) and used extensive by Statistics Canada.  It is an indexical data set and I would argue it is infrastructure or framework data.

 

It is also a major money maker as all the big data firms, marketing lists and consumer targeted sales rest upon it.  

 

Russel McOrmond at Digital Copyright Canada has been working to get access to this for a long time - http://www.digital-copyright.ca/blog/2.

 

Finally there is currently ongoing litigation, 

"CIPPIC has filed a Statement of Defense on behalf of its client, Geolytica, in response to a lawsuit filed by the Canada Post Corporation in the Federal Court of Canada (File No. T-519-12) claiming that it owns copyright in its database of postal codes and that Geolytica has infringed that copyright by "crowd-sourcing" data for its own database of postal codes mapped to street addresses."

 

​And I am not sure where this case stands at the moment.

 

Aaron, you are in good company on what you would like to do.

 

Cheerio

Tracey ​

 

 

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 7:58 AM, john whelan <[hidden email]> wrote:

Is the UK postcode data available?  Does anyone have any feedback of the impact of releasing it?

Note to Tracy did Ireland use postcodes and was it released?

Thanks

 

Cheerio John

 

On 8 March 2016 at 22:22, Aaron Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:

New to this list, so my apologies if I’m not up to date on this issue.  I was looking at some of the past postings on liberating postal code files from Canada Post.

I was wondering if anyone is interested in pushing the federal government once again to release this data.  I’d be happy to be involved in such an initiative.  Have there been organized efforts in the past to win this fight?

Aaron
_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

 

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

 

--

Tracey P. Lauriault

Assistant Professor 

Critical Media Studies and Big Data

Communication Studies

School of Journalism and Communication

Suite 4110, River Building

Carleton University

1125 Colonel By Drive

Ottawa (ON) K1S 5B6

<a href="tel:[phone]%20x7443" value="[phone]" target="_blank" class="">1-613-520-2600 x7443
[hidden email]
@TraceyLauriault
Skype: Tracey.P.Lauriault

https://carleton.ca/sjc/people-archives/lauriault-tracey/

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

-- 

Tracey P. Lauriault

Assistant Professor 
Critical Media Studies and Big Data
Communication Studies
School of Journalism and Communication
Suite 4110, River Building
Carleton University
1125 Colonel By Drive
Ottawa (ON) K1S 5B6

<a href="tel:[phone]%20x7443" value="[phone]" target="_blank" class="">1-613-520-2600 x7443
[hidden email]
@TraceyLauriault
Skype: Tracey.P.Lauriault

https://carleton.ca/sjc/people-archives/lauriault-tracey/

-- 

Tracey P. Lauriault

Assistant Professor 
Critical Media Studies and Big Data
Communication Studies
School of Journalism and Communication
Suite 4110, River Building
Carleton University
1125 Colonel By Drive
Ottawa (ON) K1S 5B6

<a href="tel:[phone]%20x7443" value="[phone]" target="_blank" class="">1-613-520-2600 x7443
[hidden email]
@TraceyLauriault
Skype: Tracey.P.Lauriault

https://carleton.ca/sjc/people-archives/lauriault-tracey/

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

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[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

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[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

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