There seems to be a little bit of confusion here... 2 different
discussions regarding the Census happening simultaneously. 1) Making Census data more freely available 2) Census 2006 on-line submission form for Linux users We're effectively beating a dead horse on the Linux issue... People complained, StatsCan initially denied their claims were relevant, but soon gave in. Horray! Threads about 1) seem to keep getting hijacked by 2)... The petition proposed is related to 1)... not 2) ! The issue actually under discussion is getting the *results* from the 2006 Census out to the public -- not the generic "the population of nunavut is x", but the raw anonymized data, with which an unknown wealth of knowledge exists but sits unused due to the $1000 per mini-set price tag. Glancing at the Statistics Act, it seems the StatsCan policy on cost recovery has no basis in the legislation. I'd like to see us aim to get a new section (3f) added to the act, which would add a responsibility for StatsCan to disseminate all data freely. Cory. |
HI Cory;
Did you have a link to the StatCan Act? If so can you put it on the wiki page? Cheers T Cory Horner wrote: > There seems to be a little bit of confusion here... 2 different > discussions regarding the Census happening simultaneously. > > 1) Making Census data more freely available > 2) Census 2006 on-line submission form for Linux users > > We're effectively beating a dead horse on the Linux issue... People > complained, StatsCan initially denied their claims were relevant, but > soon gave in. Horray! Threads about 1) seem to keep getting hijacked > by 2)... The petition proposed is related to 1)... not 2) ! > > The issue actually under discussion is getting the *results* from the > 2006 Census out to the public -- not the generic "the population of > nunavut is x", but the raw anonymized data, with which an unknown wealth > of knowledge exists but sits unused due to the $1000 per mini-set price > tag. > > Glancing at the Statistics Act, it seems the StatsCan policy on cost > recovery has no basis in the legislation. I'd like to see us aim to get > a new section (3f) added to the act, which would add a responsibility > for StatsCan to disseminate all data freely. > > Cory. > > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > [hidden email] > http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca > > |
In reply to this post by Cory Horner
Here is the link to the Statistics Act
http://www.statcan.ca/english/about/statact.htm Ted -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tracey P. Lauriault Sent: May 17, 2006 8:15 AM To: civicaccess discuss Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Freeing Census Data vs Linux Access HI Cory; Did you have a link to the StatCan Act? If so can you put it on the wiki page? Cheers T Cory Horner wrote: > There seems to be a little bit of confusion here... 2 different > discussions regarding the Census happening simultaneously. > > 1) Making Census data more freely available > 2) Census 2006 on-line submission form for Linux users > > We're effectively beating a dead horse on the Linux issue... People > complained, StatsCan initially denied their claims were relevant, but > soon gave in. Horray! Threads about 1) seem to keep getting hijacked > by 2)... The petition proposed is related to 1)... not 2) ! > > The issue actually under discussion is getting the *results* from the > 2006 Census out to the public -- not the generic "the population of > nunavut is x", but the raw anonymized data, with which an unknown > wealth of knowledge exists but sits unused due to the $1000 per > mini-set price tag. > > Glancing at the Statistics Act, it seems the StatsCan policy on cost > recovery has no basis in the legislation. I'd like to see us aim to > get a new section (3f) added to the act, which would add a > responsibility for StatsCan to disseminate all data freely. > > Cory. > > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > [hidden email] > http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess > .ca > > _______________________________________________ CivicAccess-discuss mailing list [hidden email] http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.c a |
In reply to this post by Cory Horner
> Glancing at the Statistics Act, it seems the StatsCan policy on cost
> recovery has no basis in the legislation. I'd like to see us aim to get > a new section (3f) added to the act, which would add a responsibility > for StatsCan to disseminate all data freely. > > Cory. I would support that as a very succinct and unambiguous "request for enactment". - Syd |
In reply to this post by Cory Horner
Hi all,
Here is something to throw into the mix. I came across this article by David Akin on access to data. Maybe he might be someone to contact re: data access from StatsCan and the 2006 Census. http://www.caj.ca/mediamag/summer2002/car.html http://www.davidakin.com/ - Contact info. --------------------------------------- Ted Hildebrandt Director of Social Planning Community Development Halton 860 Harrington Court Burlington, Ontario L7N 3N4 Canada Phone: (905) 632-1975, (905) 878-0955 Fax: (905) 632-0778 Email: [hidden email] Web: www.cdhalton.ca www.volunteerhalton.ca Building Community Together -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email] Sent: May 17, 2006 11:01 AM To: civicaccess discuss Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Freeing Census Data vs Linux Access > Glancing at the Statistics Act, it seems the StatsCan policy on cost > recovery has no basis in the legislation. I'd like to see us aim to > get a new section (3f) added to the act, which would add a > responsibility for StatsCan to disseminate all data freely. > > Cory. I would support that as a very succinct and unambiguous "request for enactment". - Syd _______________________________________________ CivicAccess-discuss mailing list [hidden email] http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.c a |
Hi,
I read the blog of David Akin for few weeks now and he's obviously and he has a good knowledge of the Hill. The article Ted sent shows he has some interest in the domain of public data access and he works for CTV and contributes Globe&Mail. Did anyone sent him the announcement or an invitation to join CivicAccess ? I prepare a short invitation for him if nobody tells that an invitation was already sent. Stef Selon Ted Hildebrandt <[hidden email]>: > Hi all, > > Here is something to throw into the mix. I came across this article by > David Akin on access to data. Maybe he might be someone to contact re: > data access from StatsCan and the 2006 Census. > > http://www.caj.ca/mediamag/summer2002/car.html > > http://www.davidakin.com/ - Contact info. > |
Go for it steph! Tracey P. Lauriault Geomatics and Cartographic Research Centre (GCRC) [hidden email] or [hidden email] On May 17, Stephane Guidoin <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Hi, > > I read the blog of David Akin for few weeks now and he's obviously and he has a > good knowledge of the Hill. The article Ted sent shows he has some interest in > the domain of public data access and he works for CTV and contributes > Globe&Mail. > > Did anyone sent him the announcement or an invitation to join CivicAccess ? > > I prepare a short invitation for him if nobody tells that an invitation was > already sent. > > Stef > > Selon Ted Hildebrandt <[hidden email]>: > > > Hi all, > > > > Here is something to throw into the mix. I came across this article by > > David Akin on access to data. Maybe he might be someone to contact re: > > data access from StatsCan and the 2006 Census. > > > > <a > > > > <a href='http://www.davidakin.com/'>http://www.davidakin.com/</a> - Contact info. > > > > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > [hidden email] > <a href='http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca'>http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca</a> > |
In reply to this post by Stephane Guidoin
Stephane
Great, I say go ahead and invite him. I don't remember David Akin's name ever coming up when we were discussing who to invite and there's no mention on the wiki, so seems safe to say he hasn't been invited. Patrick Stephane Guidoin wrote: > Hi, > > I read the blog of David Akin for few weeks now and he's obviously and he has a > good knowledge of the Hill. The article Ted sent shows he has some interest in > the domain of public data access and he works for CTV and contributes > Globe&Mail. > > Did anyone sent him the announcement or an invitation to join CivicAccess ? > > I prepare a short invitation for him if nobody tells that an invitation was > already sent. > > Stef > > Selon Ted Hildebrandt <[hidden email]>: > >> Hi all, >> >> Here is something to throw into the mix. I came across this article by >> David Akin on access to data. Maybe he might be someone to contact re: >> data access from StatsCan and the 2006 Census. >> >> http://www.caj.ca/mediamag/summer2002/car.html >> >> http://www.davidakin.com/ - Contact info. >> > > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > [hidden email] > http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca > |
In reply to this post by Cory Horner
> due to the $1000 per mini-set price tag.
Does anyone know how much revenue StatCan generates from its access licenses ? I'm ready to bet that Access Copyright and Copiebec generate more profit from the *interest* running on the unallocated reproduction licenses collected from Canadian Universities, schools and gvmt :) Maybe some of that money could go to "liberate" StatCan data and help finance Opne Access initiatives... see: http://www.fedcan.ca/english/advocacy/openaccess/ We should use the interest on these amounts (which sould not have been created if the market were efficient) to fix the market's market failures(unallocated repro fees means that we paied for content and the money has not found an author). Besides, the idea is that if authors have an incentive to give works away in the first place, we should use money left over to set this process up. Any thoughts ? Olivier Quoting Cory Horner <[hidden email]>: > There seems to be a little bit of confusion here... 2 different > discussions regarding the Census happening simultaneously. > > 1) Making Census data more freely available > 2) Census 2006 on-line submission form for Linux users > > We're effectively beating a dead horse on the Linux issue... People > complained, StatsCan initially denied their claims were relevant, but > soon gave in. Horray! Threads about 1) seem to keep getting hijacked > by 2)... The petition proposed is related to 1)... not 2) ! > > The issue actually under discussion is getting the *results* from the > 2006 Census out to the public -- not the generic "the population of > nunavut is x", but the raw anonymized data, with which an unknown wealth > of knowledge exists but sits unused due to the $1000 per mini-set price > tag. > > Glancing at the Statistics Act, it seems the StatsCan policy on cost > recovery has no basis in the legislation. I'd like to see us aim to get > a new section (3f) added to the act, which would add a responsibility > for StatsCan to disseminate all data freely. > > Cory. > > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > [hidden email] > http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca > |
Anyone have leads on how we can find out how much stat can earns from
selling data?
Could we estimate if the cost of selling is more expensive than just giving it away? TpL Olivier Charbonneau wrote: due to the $1000 per mini-set price tag.Does anyone know how much revenue StatCan generates from its access licenses ? I'm ready to bet that Access Copyright and Copiebec generate more profit from the *interest* running on the unallocated reproduction licenses collected from Canadian Universities, schools and gvmt :) Maybe some of that money could go to "liberate" StatCan data and help finance Opne Access initiatives... see: http://www.fedcan.ca/english/advocacy/openaccess/ We should use the interest on these amounts (which sould not have been created if the market were efficient) to fix the market's market failures(unallocated repro fees means that we paied for content and the money has not found an author). Besides, the idea is that if authors have an incentive to give works away in the first place, we should use money left over to set this process up. Any thoughts ? Olivier Quoting Cory Horner [hidden email]:There seems to be a little bit of confusion here... 2 different discussions regarding the Census happening simultaneously. 1) Making Census data more freely available 2) Census 2006 on-line submission form for Linux users We're effectively beating a dead horse on the Linux issue... People complained, StatsCan initially denied their claims were relevant, but soon gave in. Horray! Threads about 1) seem to keep getting hijacked by 2)... The petition proposed is related to 1)... not 2) ! The issue actually under discussion is getting the *results* from the 2006 Census out to the public -- not the generic "the population of nunavut is x", but the raw anonymized data, with which an unknown wealth of knowledge exists but sits unused due to the $1000 per mini-set price tag. Glancing at the Statistics Act, it seems the StatsCan policy on cost recovery has no basis in the legislation. I'd like to see us aim to get a new section (3f) added to the act, which would add a responsibility for StatsCan to disseminate all data freely. Cory. _______________________________________________ CivicAccess-discuss mailing list [hidden email] http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca_______________________________________________ CivicAccess-discuss mailing list [hidden email] http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca |
In reply to this post by Olivier Charbonneau
Just did a quick Google and here is something (although a bit dated). Need to find more current data...
http://www.usask.ca/library/gic/v2n4/mcmahon/mcmahon.html http://www.usask.ca/library/gic/18/prophet2.html http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/datalib/misc/nilsen.html Ted ________________________________ From: [hidden email] on behalf of Tracey P. Lauriault Sent: Thu 18/05/2006 5:00 PM To: [hidden email]; civicaccess discuss Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Freeing Census Data vs Linux Access Anyone have leads on how we can find out how much stat can earns from selling data? Could we estimate if the cost of selling is more expensive than just giving it away? TpL Olivier Charbonneau wrote: due to the $1000 per mini-set price tag. Does anyone know how much revenue StatCan generates from its access licenses ? I'm ready to bet that Access Copyright and Copiebec generate more profit from the *interest* running on the unallocated reproduction licenses collected from Canadian Universities, schools and gvmt :) Maybe some of that money could go to "liberate" StatCan data and help finance Opne Access initiatives... see: http://www.fedcan.ca/english/advocacy/openaccess/ We should use the interest on these amounts (which sould not have been created if the market were efficient) to fix the market's market failures(unallocated repro fees means that we paied for content and the money has not found an author). Besides, the idea is that if authors have an incentive to give works away in the first place, we should use money left over to set this process up. Any thoughts ? Olivier Quoting Cory Horner <[hidden email]> <mailto:[hidden email]> : There seems to be a little bit of confusion here... 2 different discussions regarding the Census happening simultaneously. 1) Making Census data more freely available 2) Census 2006 on-line submission form for Linux users We're effectively beating a dead horse on the Linux issue... People complained, StatsCan initially denied their claims were relevant, but soon gave in. Horray! Threads about 1) seem to keep getting hijacked by 2)... The petition proposed is related to 1)... not 2) ! The issue actually under discussion is getting the *results* from the 2006 Census out to the public -- not the generic "the population of nunavut is x", but the raw anonymized data, with which an unknown wealth of knowledge exists but sits unused due to the $1000 per mini-set price tag. Glancing at the Statistics Act, it seems the StatsCan policy on cost recovery has no basis in the legislation. I'd like to see us aim to get a new section (3f) added to the act, which would add a responsibility for StatsCan to disseminate all data freely. Cory. _______________________________________________ CivicAccess-discuss mailing list [hidden email] http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca _______________________________________________ CivicAccess-discuss mailing list [hidden email] http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca |
In reply to this post by Tracey P. Lauriault-2
The principal published source for this kind of information
is the Estimates, available on the Treasury Board Secretariat site at http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/tb/estimate/estime.html. The site seems to be down this morning. I assume this will be rectified shortly. I compiled this information for the 1996 Census, relying upon the Estimates and information obtained using the Access to Information Act. I have the details at home, but I have a pretty good recollection that it runs something like this: Cost of the 1996 census: $310 million Revenues from sales: $45 million Using the AIA, I found that only $15 million of that $45 million came from non-governmental sources, i.e. 'new' money. Health Canada, for example, might pay Stat Can to put a few questions into the long form of the Census. Other government institutions purchase data products, or customized tabulations. Don't quote those numbers. I will check on them over the weekend. Keep in mind the added costs entailed in selling: marketing, monitoring security to prevent 'data leakage', etc. If the data is free, these costs are not incurred. I have not compiled this data for the 2001 census, and of course data on the 2006 census won't be available for several years. Regards, Andrew Hubbertz Quoting "Tracey P. Lauriault" <[hidden email]>: > Anyone have leads on how we can find out how much stat can earns from > selling data? > > Could we estimate if the cost of selling is more expensive than just > giving it away? > > TpL > > > Olivier Charbonneau wrote: > >> due to the $1000 per mini-set price tag. > >> > > > > Does anyone know how much revenue StatCan generates from its access > licenses ? > > > > I'm ready to bet that Access Copyright and Copiebec generate more profit > from > > the *interest* running on the unallocated reproduction licenses collected > from > > Canadian Universities, schools and gvmt :) > > > > Maybe some of that money could go to "liberate" StatCan data and help > finance > > Opne Access initiatives... see: > > http://www.fedcan.ca/english/advocacy/openaccess/ > > > > We should use the interest on these amounts (which sould not have been > created > > if the market were efficient) to fix the market's market > failures(unallocated > > repro fees means that we paied for content and the money has not found an > > author). Besides, the idea is that if authors have an incentive to give > works > > away in the first place, we should use money left over to set this process > up. > > > > Any thoughts ? > > Olivier > > > > > > Quoting Cory Horner <[hidden email]>: > > > > > >> There seems to be a little bit of confusion here... 2 different > >> discussions regarding the Census happening simultaneously. > >> > >> 1) Making Census data more freely available > >> 2) Census 2006 on-line submission form for Linux users > >> > >> We're effectively beating a dead horse on the Linux issue... People > >> complained, StatsCan initially denied their claims were relevant, but > >> soon gave in. Horray! Threads about 1) seem to keep getting hijacked > >> by 2)... The petition proposed is related to 1)... not 2) ! > >> > >> The issue actually under discussion is getting the *results* from the > >> 2006 Census out to the public -- not the generic "the population of > >> nunavut is x", but the raw anonymized data, with which an unknown wealth > >> of knowledge exists but sits unused due to the $1000 per mini-set price > >> tag. > >> > >> Glancing at the Statistics Act, it seems the StatsCan policy on cost > >> recovery has no basis in the legislation. I'd like to see us aim to get > >> a new section (3f) added to the act, which would add a responsibility > >> for StatsCan to disseminate all data freely. > >> > >> Cory. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > >> [hidden email] > >> http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca > >> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > > [hidden email] > > http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca > > > > > > Andrew Hubbertz Librarian Emeritus University of Saskatchewan Library 613 692 2709 [hidden email] |
If I may respond to my own posting!
I published an article about 10 years ago, which I also put on the internet: Andrew Hubbertz,"Response to Bernie Gorman". http://library.usask.ca/~hubbertz/eip96.html This has the data I had in mind and thought I had only in some files at home.... Here is the salient passage. It deals with total Statistics Canada budget, not the Census alone: "In 1994-95, Statistics Canada had an operating budget of $319 million. Of this, some $44 million was revenue credited to the vote (i.e. revenues generated from sales of products and services). According to information obtained through the Access to Information Act, these revenues may be broken down as follows: Federal entities $23,902,916 Other levels of government 4,703,482 Other 15,386,351 Total $43,992,749 In other words, $28.6 million in sales were to other government institutions. Revenues generated from non-governmental sources amount to $15.4 million, or only 4.8% of the operating budget, before the costs of marketing, legal fees associated with license agreements, etc." Cheers, Andrew Hubbertz Quoting [hidden email]: > The principal published source for this kind of information > is the Estimates, available on the Treasury Board Secretariat > site at http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/tb/estimate/estime.html. > > The site seems to be down this morning. I assume this will > be rectified shortly. > > I compiled this information for the 1996 Census, relying upon > the Estimates and information obtained using the Access to Information > Act. I have the details at home, but I have a pretty good > recollection that it runs something like this: > > Cost of the 1996 census: $310 million > > Revenues from sales: $45 million > > Using the AIA, I found that only $15 million of that $45 million came from > non-governmental sources, i.e. 'new' money. Health Canada, for example, > might > pay Stat Can to put a few questions into the long form of the > Census. Other government institutions purchase data products, > or customized tabulations. > > Don't quote those numbers. I will check on them over the weekend. > > Keep in mind the added costs entailed in selling: marketing, > monitoring security to prevent 'data leakage', etc. If the data > is free, these costs are not incurred. > > I have not compiled this data for the 2001 census, and of course > data on the 2006 census won't be available for several years. > > Regards, > > Andrew Hubbertz > > > > > Quoting "Tracey P. Lauriault" <[hidden email]>: > > > Anyone have leads on how we can find out how much stat can earns from > > selling data? > > > > Could we estimate if the cost of selling is more expensive than just > > giving it away? > > > > TpL > > > > > > Olivier Charbonneau wrote: > > >> due to the $1000 per mini-set price tag. > > >> > > > > > > Does anyone know how much revenue StatCan generates from its access > > licenses ? > > > > > > I'm ready to bet that Access Copyright and Copiebec generate more profit > > from > > > the *interest* running on the unallocated reproduction licenses collected > > from > > > Canadian Universities, schools and gvmt :) > > > > > > Maybe some of that money could go to "liberate" StatCan data and help > > finance > > > Opne Access initiatives... see: > > > http://www.fedcan.ca/english/advocacy/openaccess/ > > > > > > We should use the interest on these amounts (which sould not have been > > created > > > if the market were efficient) to fix the market's market > > failures(unallocated > > > repro fees means that we paied for content and the money has not found an > > > author). Besides, the idea is that if authors have an incentive to give > > works > > > away in the first place, we should use money left over to set this > process > > up. > > > > > > Any thoughts ? > > > Olivier > > > > > > > > > Quoting Cory Horner <[hidden email]>: > > > > > > > > >> There seems to be a little bit of confusion here... 2 different > > >> discussions regarding the Census happening simultaneously. > > >> > > >> 1) Making Census data more freely available > > >> 2) Census 2006 on-line submission form for Linux users > > >> > > >> We're effectively beating a dead horse on the Linux issue... People > > >> complained, StatsCan initially denied their claims were relevant, but > > >> soon gave in. Horray! Threads about 1) seem to keep getting hijacked > > >> by 2)... The petition proposed is related to 1)... not 2) ! > > >> > > >> The issue actually under discussion is getting the *results* from the > > >> 2006 Census out to the public -- not the generic "the population of > > >> nunavut is x", but the raw anonymized data, with which an unknown wealth > > >> of knowledge exists but sits unused due to the $1000 per mini-set price > > >> tag. > > >> > > >> Glancing at the Statistics Act, it seems the StatsCan policy on cost > > >> recovery has no basis in the legislation. I'd like to see us aim to get > > >> a new section (3f) added to the act, which would add a responsibility > > >> for StatsCan to disseminate all data freely. > > >> > > >> Cory. > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > > >> [hidden email] > > >> > http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > > > [hidden email] > > > http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca > > > > > > > > > > > > > Andrew Hubbertz > Librarian Emeritus > University of Saskatchewan Library > > 613 692 2709 > [hidden email] > > > Andrew Hubbertz Librarian Emeritus University of Saskatchewan Library 613 692 2709 [hidden email] |
On this lovely rainy day i updated the wiki page that contains all our
free the census gems to date. It it turning into a nice resource, anyone wanna start drafting a little petition texte? We can worry about formatting later. here is the link - http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/CensusAction |
Free forum by Nabble | Edit this page |