Cdn Standards Assoc (c) & cost recovery
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Cdn Standards Assoc (c) & cost recovery
 
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Here's another area of concern. Note that the CSA is just trying to cover their costs through sale of copyrighted material, but could provide them as copyleft if they were properly funded by the federal government.
CSA is the Canadian Standards body for lots of IT things as well as physical products. Joe Murray, PhD President, JMA Consulting [hidden email] skype JosephPMurray twitter JoeMurray 416.466.1281 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Cathy Frederickson <[hidden email]> Date: Wed, May 18, 2011 at 11:20 AM Subject: Upcoming CSA Webex Sessions to discuss CSA Copyright Assignment Requests To: [hidden email] Cc: Sam Loggia <[hidden email]>, David Briere <[hidden email]>, Loretta Wegman <[hidden email]>, Aliya Ramji <[hidden email]> Dear CSA IT Committee Members:
Over the last few months CSA has been communicating with you regarding our efforts to strengthen our CSA copyright position.
With the use of the internet and other growing social media channels, it has become increasingly evident that CSA(and other Standards Organizations) copyrighted materials are being copied and distributed without permission. Recognizing that CSA offsets part of our operating costs through the sale of our standards, this continued activity could undermine the future viability of our association.
CSA is currently looking at several cases to take legal action against violations of misuse and infringement of our copyright standards. Most members will appreciate that in our efforts to legally protect our copyright, we also need to ensure that those contributing towards the development of these materials provide a copyright release. We have since requested all committee members explicit permission to use their intellectual property which is brought to the table for incorporation into the final standard. This is not intended to prevent members from reasonably utilizing the contributions for their own activities, however CSA does need to ensure that our members are allowing us to use these contributions in the final CSA standard and related products.
Unfortunately our communications have unintentionally resulted in concerns being raised regarding the implications of assigning member copyright to CSA. As a result we will be offering a series of Webex sessions specifically on the issue of copyright for our members. We hope you will be available to attend one of these sessions and come with your questions and concerns.
Please join us for one or more of the following sessions:
Thursday May 26 , 1-2pm EST. Thursday June 23, 1-2pm EST. Thursday July 21, 1-2 pm EST. Thursday August 25 1-2pm EST.
Yours truly, Cathy Frederickson Manager Member Education CSA Standards <a href="tel:416-747-2567" value="+14167472567" target="_blank">416-747-2567
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Re: Cdn Standards Assoc (c) & cost recovery
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ISO material is just as costly and restrictive, odd, considering that contributions and standards development is done by volunteers. In addition the feds fund these by ensuring that top officials sit at standards tables, which means that travel & hr time, lots of it, is dedicated to this activity.
For standards to be unbiased, there needs to be some sort of arms length from gov and industry, while in the end, standards are created by those at the table, which are primariy gov and industry.
cheers
t
On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Joe Murray <[hidden email]> wrote: Here's another area of concern. Note that the CSA is just trying to cover their costs through sale of copyrighted material, but could provide them as copyleft if they were properly funded by the federal government. -- Tracey P. Lauriault 613-234-2805 |
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Le 18 mai 2011 à 12:29, Tracey P. Lauriault a écrit : > ISO material is just as costly and restrictive, odd, considering that contributions and standards development is done by volunteers. It depends, but ISO and other orgs are started to be challenged see the recent decision of UK. http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/UK-government-open-standards-policy-in-international-dispute-1244652.html The UK Government policy on open standards appears to be placing them in direct conflict with international standards organisations. The UK policy is designed to level the playing field between proprietary and open source software by requiring only royalty free intellectual property be included in standards referenced for government procurement. > For standards to be unbiased, there needs to be some sort of arms length from gov and industry, while in the end, standards are created by those at the table, which are primariy gov and industry. Standards to be unbiased need to be implemented. There are not perfect things. The most important point is that the people who have a practical stake into it need to be involved and reach a consensus. Something which is only gov policies and no deployments in industry is a failed standard. Something which takes care only of corporate interests is also a failed standard. Standards are hard. ISO (and other type of similar orgs) have a strong record of producing monsters which are not implemented and covered by patents. Organizations such as W3C have free specifications, a clear royality-free patent policy, and an open participation process. Not sure some of you are familiar with activities around egov at W3C. http://www.w3.org/egov/ Disclaimer: I have been part of the staff of W3C from 2000 to 2008. And I'm working now for Opera Software, a browser implementer http://www.opera.com/ which is directly involved in W3C. -- Karl Dubost Montréal, QC, Canada http://www.la-grange.net/karl/ |
Cdn Standards Assoc (c) & cost recovery
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I think you will like the book I am reading:
Standards and their Stories: How quantifying, classifying, and formalizing practices shape everyday life by Martha Lampland and Susan Leigh Star. It is a great book and fits nicely with my little infrastructure fetish.
It is also worth reading by uber standards geeks and formal ontology people, as it gives standards a social life, instead of just this normalized objective thing that we just do.
2 books:
Standards and their Stories: http://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/cup_detail.taf?ti_id=5281
Sorting Things Out: Classification and its Consequences: http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?tid=4003&ttype=2
On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 1:03 PM, Karl Dubost <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- Tracey P. Lauriault 613-234-2805 |
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Le 18 mai 2011 à 13:10, Tracey P. Lauriault a écrit : > Standards and their Stories: How quantifying, classifying, and formalizing practices shape everyday life by Martha Lampland and Susan Leigh Star. It is a great book and fits nicely with my little infrastructure fetish. oh thanks. Another one which is very interesting for the social narratives about the birth of networks, internet and finally the Web. How the Web Was Born: The Story of the World Wide Web Robert Cailliau, James Gillies, ISBN 978-0-19-286207-5, Oxford University Press (Jan 1, 2000) -- Karl Dubost Montréal, QC, Canada http://www.la-grange.net/karl/ |
Re: Cdn Standards Assoc (c) & cost recovery
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In reply to this post by Joe Murray
Joe - really glad you raised this. Going to apply my brain to it.
Such a great example of governing bodies getting it wrong.
I'm working with a client in a similar space so this is really timely. Thank you. cheers, dave On 11-05-18 9:25 AM, Joe Murray wrote: Here's another area of concern. Note that the CSA is just trying to cover their costs through sale of copyrighted material, but could provide them as copyleft if they were properly funded by the federal government. |
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Hi all,
In addition to MontrealOuvert, I run Nimonik.ca - a company that helps businesses audit and manage legislative requirements tied to ISO standards (amongst other things). Notably, we manage https://www.wikichecklists.com that has many questionnaires based on various ISO standards (14001, 9001, 26000, 27001, ...) standards. We have debated internally our risk with regard to infringing on their copyright. We know people at the CSA and they know us, we have yet to hear anything from them on our use of their standards. Personally, I find is asinine that they copyright this stuff. If their goal is to have as many people and organizations as possible adopt and use their standards, they should make them freely available. As far as I know, CSA, generates most of its revenue from registrations to the standards and government financing. Which further reduces the logic for for charging for their standards. On top of all this, a lot of canadian legislation (especially environmental) references various ISO standards. By referencing standards you are basically making them law. But, the standards cost money, which makes them inaccessible and maybe in conflict with Crown copyright? I'll stop here, if someone is more knowledgeable on the subject of industrial standards, I am keen to know what to read. Cheers, On 2011-05-18, at 3:23 PM, David Eaves wrote:
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+1 Jonathan. If your mission is to spread the stuff and you are a
non-profit then your sustainability model runs counter to your
mission. There is tension there, but I sense they are on the wrong
side of it.
On 11-05-18 4:15 PM, Jonathan Brun wrote: Hi all, |
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In reply to this post by Jonathan Brun-2
Le 18 mai 2011 à 19:15, Jonathan Brun a écrit : > On top of all this, a lot of canadian legislation (especially environmental) references various ISO standards. By referencing standards you are basically making them law. But, the standards cost money, which makes them inaccessible and maybe in conflict with Crown copyright? In the new trend and reality of our world, many of these standards are what governments and industries were used to. The Copyright and patents associated with them are counter-logical to the culture of Opendata. I would avoid them even if it means to take a slower path sometimes and/or have more battles ahead. -- Karl Dubost Montréal, QC, Canada http://www.la-grange.net/karl/ |
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