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wow! cance the census and mail delivery

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Tracey P. Lauriault
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wow! cance the census and mail delivery

Tracey P. Lauriault
Just what kinda country do we live in?  Anybody in canada following the Canada Post story?

I find it interesting that we live in an evidence based society, but alas, where is the evidence that this is the best decision? What is the report that led to this?  Where are the data to support this?

So how come a crown corporation does not need to follow gov regulation but somehow is governed by the gov!

Confused & bemused in Ireland!
Cheers
t

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Ted Strauss
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Re: wow! cance the census and mail delivery

Ted Strauss
Tracy,
Last week when the announcement dropped, a lot of reporters kept repeating a particular data point
that was conveyed by the Canada Post execs (or whoever it was who made this announcement).
That data point was that "two thirds of Canadians already don't receive home delivery".
I don't know where that figure comes from, and it sounds suspect to me.
Two thirds of what? The population, the regional area, the number of municipalities? 
This figure was very effective at framing the issue as reasonable and invevitable to the average person.
But we should be checking the available data on canada post, thanks for the reminder.
Ted



On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just what kinda country do we live in?  Anybody in canada following the Canada Post story?

I find it interesting that we live in an evidence based society, but alas, where is the evidence that this is the best decision? What is the report that led to this?  Where are the data to support this?

So how come a crown corporation does not need to follow gov regulation but somehow is governed by the gov!

Confused & bemused in Ireland!
Cheers
t

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jn landry
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Re: wow! cance the census and mail delivery

jn landry
The Government keeps refering to a report issued by the Conference Board of Canada entitled the Future of Postal Service in Canada to justify its decision.
 
 
To note: Canada Post's CEO, Deepak Chopra is a board member of the Conference Board of Canada.
 
 
Jean-Noé
 
 


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Ted Strauss <[hidden email]> wrote:
Tracy,
Last week when the announcement dropped, a lot of reporters kept repeating a particular data point
that was conveyed by the Canada Post execs (or whoever it was who made this announcement).
That data point was that "two thirds of Canadians already don't receive home delivery".
I don't know where that figure comes from, and it sounds suspect to me.
Two thirds of what? The population, the regional area, the number of municipalities? 
This figure was very effective at framing the issue as reasonable and invevitable to the average person.
But we should be checking the available data on canada post, thanks for the reminder.
Ted



On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just what kinda country do we live in?  Anybody in canada following the Canada Post story?

I find it interesting that we live in an evidence based society, but alas, where is the evidence that this is the best decision? What is the report that led to this?  Where are the data to support this?

So how come a crown corporation does not need to follow gov regulation but somehow is governed by the gov!

Confused & bemused in Ireland!
Cheers
t

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514.237.5438 


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Tracey P. Lauriault
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Re: wow! cance the census and mail delivery

Tracey P. Lauriault
Ted & JN, and other civicaccessers, please download this document like crazy, and please take screen captures of the Conference Board of Canada members and be sure to include the date of the download and the url.  These records have a funny way to dissapear!  I put my copy up on slide share and on face book!

http://www.slideshare.net/TraceyLauriault/13-290-postalservice.  Also recall the other CF of Canada debacle with plagiarism! http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4000/125/

Cheers
t


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 7:44 PM, jn landry <[hidden email]> wrote:
The Government keeps refering to a report issued by the Conference Board of Canada entitled the Future of Postal Service in Canada to justify its decision.
 
 
To note: Canada Post's CEO, Deepak Chopra is a board member of the Conference Board of Canada.
 
 
Jean-Noé
 
 


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Ted Strauss <[hidden email]> wrote:
Tracy,
Last week when the announcement dropped, a lot of reporters kept repeating a particular data point
that was conveyed by the Canada Post execs (or whoever it was who made this announcement).
That data point was that "two thirds of Canadians already don't receive home delivery".
I don't know where that figure comes from, and it sounds suspect to me.
Two thirds of what? The population, the regional area, the number of municipalities? 
This figure was very effective at framing the issue as reasonable and invevitable to the average person.
But we should be checking the available data on canada post, thanks for the reminder.
Ted



On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just what kinda country do we live in?  Anybody in canada following the Canada Post story?

I find it interesting that we live in an evidence based society, but alas, where is the evidence that this is the best decision? What is the report that led to this?  Where are the data to support this?

So how come a crown corporation does not need to follow gov regulation but somehow is governed by the gov!

Confused & bemused in Ireland!
Cheers
t

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Ted Strauss
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Re: wow! cance the census and mail delivery

Ted Strauss
Thanks Tracy, 
I think I found the solution to the "two thirds" mystery on page 9.  See the attached table below.
When they say that two thirds of Canadians do not get mail to their door, they are parsing that figure very carefully.
40% get mail to their door.
20% get mail in the lobby of their building.
5% get mail at the end of their driveway.
That's a subtotal of 65% that most sane people would define as "to their door".
29% get mail at a group mailbox in the neighbourhood.
5% get mail at the post office.

So actually two thirds of Canadians DO get mail delivered to their domicile, even if said mail is not directly touching their front door.

Inline image 1

-ted


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ted & JN, and other civicaccessers, please download this document like crazy, and please take screen captures of the Conference Board of Canada members and be sure to include the date of the download and the url.  These records have a funny way to dissapear!  I put my copy up on slide share and on face book!

http://www.slideshare.net/TraceyLauriault/13-290-postalservice.  Also recall the other CF of Canada debacle with plagiarism! http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4000/125/

Cheers
t


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 7:44 PM, jn landry <[hidden email]> wrote:
The Government keeps refering to a report issued by the Conference Board of Canada entitled the Future of Postal Service in Canada to justify its decision.
 
 
To note: Canada Post's CEO, Deepak Chopra is a board member of the Conference Board of Canada.
 
 
Jean-Noé
 
 


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Ted Strauss <[hidden email]> wrote:
Tracy,
Last week when the announcement dropped, a lot of reporters kept repeating a particular data point
that was conveyed by the Canada Post execs (or whoever it was who made this announcement).
That data point was that "two thirds of Canadians already don't receive home delivery".
I don't know where that figure comes from, and it sounds suspect to me.
Two thirds of what? The population, the regional area, the number of municipalities? 
This figure was very effective at framing the issue as reasonable and invevitable to the average person.
But we should be checking the available data on canada post, thanks for the reminder.
Ted



On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just what kinda country do we live in?  Anybody in canada following the Canada Post story?

I find it interesting that we live in an evidence based society, but alas, where is the evidence that this is the best decision? What is the report that led to this?  Where are the data to support this?

So how come a crown corporation does not need to follow gov regulation but somehow is governed by the gov!

Confused & bemused in Ireland!
Cheers
t

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Jean-Noé Landry
<a href="tel:514.237.5438" value="+15142375438" target="_blank">514.237.5438 


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Tracey P. Lauriault
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Re: wow! cance the census and mail delivery

Tracey P. Lauriault
Ted can I post your analysis on Datalibre.ca?


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 8:44 PM, Ted Strauss <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks Tracy, 
I think I found the solution to the "two thirds" mystery on page 9.  See the attached table below.
When they say that two thirds of Canadians do not get mail to their door, they are parsing that figure very carefully.
40% get mail to their door.
20% get mail in the lobby of their building.
5% get mail at the end of their driveway.
That's a subtotal of 65% that most sane people would define as "to their door".
29% get mail at a group mailbox in the neighbourhood.
5% get mail at the post office.

So actually two thirds of Canadians DO get mail delivered to their domicile, even if said mail is not directly touching their front door.

Inline image 1

-ted


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ted & JN, and other civicaccessers, please download this document like crazy, and please take screen captures of the Conference Board of Canada members and be sure to include the date of the download and the url.  These records have a funny way to dissapear!  I put my copy up on slide share and on face book!

http://www.slideshare.net/TraceyLauriault/13-290-postalservice.  Also recall the other CF of Canada debacle with plagiarism! http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4000/125/

Cheers
t


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 7:44 PM, jn landry <[hidden email]> wrote:
The Government keeps refering to a report issued by the Conference Board of Canada entitled the Future of Postal Service in Canada to justify its decision.
 
 
To note: Canada Post's CEO, Deepak Chopra is a board member of the Conference Board of Canada.
 
 
Jean-Noé
 
 


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Ted Strauss <[hidden email]> wrote:
Tracy,
Last week when the announcement dropped, a lot of reporters kept repeating a particular data point
that was conveyed by the Canada Post execs (or whoever it was who made this announcement).
That data point was that "two thirds of Canadians already don't receive home delivery".
I don't know where that figure comes from, and it sounds suspect to me.
Two thirds of what? The population, the regional area, the number of municipalities? 
This figure was very effective at framing the issue as reasonable and invevitable to the average person.
But we should be checking the available data on canada post, thanks for the reminder.
Ted



On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just what kinda country do we live in?  Anybody in canada following the Canada Post story?

I find it interesting that we live in an evidence based society, but alas, where is the evidence that this is the best decision? What is the report that led to this?  Where are the data to support this?

So how come a crown corporation does not need to follow gov regulation but somehow is governed by the gov!

Confused & bemused in Ireland!
Cheers
t

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss


_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss



--
Jean-Noé Landry
<a href="tel:514.237.5438" value="+15142375438" target="_blank">514.237.5438 


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CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
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http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss



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Ted Strauss
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Re: wow! cance the census and mail delivery

Ted Strauss
Sure


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ted can I post your analysis on Datalibre.ca?


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 8:44 PM, Ted Strauss <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks Tracy, 
I think I found the solution to the "two thirds" mystery on page 9.  See the attached table below.
When they say that two thirds of Canadians do not get mail to their door, they are parsing that figure very carefully.
40% get mail to their door.
20% get mail in the lobby of their building.
5% get mail at the end of their driveway.
That's a subtotal of 65% that most sane people would define as "to their door".
29% get mail at a group mailbox in the neighbourhood.
5% get mail at the post office.

So actually two thirds of Canadians DO get mail delivered to their domicile, even if said mail is not directly touching their front door.

Inline image 1

-ted


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ted & JN, and other civicaccessers, please download this document like crazy, and please take screen captures of the Conference Board of Canada members and be sure to include the date of the download and the url.  These records have a funny way to dissapear!  I put my copy up on slide share and on face book!

http://www.slideshare.net/TraceyLauriault/13-290-postalservice.  Also recall the other CF of Canada debacle with plagiarism! http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4000/125/

Cheers
t


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 7:44 PM, jn landry <[hidden email]> wrote:
The Government keeps refering to a report issued by the Conference Board of Canada entitled the Future of Postal Service in Canada to justify its decision.
 
 
To note: Canada Post's CEO, Deepak Chopra is a board member of the Conference Board of Canada.
 
 
Jean-Noé
 
 


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Ted Strauss <[hidden email]> wrote:
Tracy,
Last week when the announcement dropped, a lot of reporters kept repeating a particular data point
that was conveyed by the Canada Post execs (or whoever it was who made this announcement).
That data point was that "two thirds of Canadians already don't receive home delivery".
I don't know where that figure comes from, and it sounds suspect to me.
Two thirds of what? The population, the regional area, the number of municipalities? 
This figure was very effective at framing the issue as reasonable and invevitable to the average person.
But we should be checking the available data on canada post, thanks for the reminder.
Ted



On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just what kinda country do we live in?  Anybody in canada following the Canada Post story?

I find it interesting that we live in an evidence based society, but alas, where is the evidence that this is the best decision? What is the report that led to this?  Where are the data to support this?

So how come a crown corporation does not need to follow gov regulation but somehow is governed by the gov!

Confused & bemused in Ireland!
Cheers
t

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss


_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
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--
Jean-Noé Landry
<a href="tel:514.237.5438" value="+15142375438" target="_blank">514.237.5438 


_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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Ted Strauss
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Re: wow! cance the census and mail delivery

Ted Strauss
A quick google search found several examples where this two thirds figure has been cited.
I'm focussing on this one figure, but this is just one detail in complicated issue.

And here is the source press release from can post http://www.canadapost.ca/cpo/mc/aboutus/news/pr/2013/2013_action_plan.jsf
"Over the next five years, the one third of Canadian households that receive their mail at their door will be converted to community mailbox delivery. This change will provide significant savings to Canada Post and will have no impact on the two thirds of Canadian households that already receive their mail and parcels through community mailboxes, grouped or lobby mailboxes or rural mailboxes."


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Ted Strauss <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sure


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ted can I post your analysis on Datalibre.ca?


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 8:44 PM, Ted Strauss <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks Tracy, 
I think I found the solution to the "two thirds" mystery on page 9.  See the attached table below.
When they say that two thirds of Canadians do not get mail to their door, they are parsing that figure very carefully.
40% get mail to their door.
20% get mail in the lobby of their building.
5% get mail at the end of their driveway.
That's a subtotal of 65% that most sane people would define as "to their door".
29% get mail at a group mailbox in the neighbourhood.
5% get mail at the post office.

So actually two thirds of Canadians DO get mail delivered to their domicile, even if said mail is not directly touching their front door.

Inline image 1

-ted


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ted & JN, and other civicaccessers, please download this document like crazy, and please take screen captures of the Conference Board of Canada members and be sure to include the date of the download and the url.  These records have a funny way to dissapear!  I put my copy up on slide share and on face book!

http://www.slideshare.net/TraceyLauriault/13-290-postalservice.  Also recall the other CF of Canada debacle with plagiarism! http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4000/125/

Cheers
t


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 7:44 PM, jn landry <[hidden email]> wrote:
The Government keeps refering to a report issued by the Conference Board of Canada entitled the Future of Postal Service in Canada to justify its decision.
 
 
To note: Canada Post's CEO, Deepak Chopra is a board member of the Conference Board of Canada.
 
 
Jean-Noé
 
 


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Ted Strauss <[hidden email]> wrote:
Tracy,
Last week when the announcement dropped, a lot of reporters kept repeating a particular data point
that was conveyed by the Canada Post execs (or whoever it was who made this announcement).
That data point was that "two thirds of Canadians already don't receive home delivery".
I don't know where that figure comes from, and it sounds suspect to me.
Two thirds of what? The population, the regional area, the number of municipalities? 
This figure was very effective at framing the issue as reasonable and invevitable to the average person.
But we should be checking the available data on canada post, thanks for the reminder.
Ted



On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just what kinda country do we live in?  Anybody in canada following the Canada Post story?

I find it interesting that we live in an evidence based society, but alas, where is the evidence that this is the best decision? What is the report that led to this?  Where are the data to support this?

So how come a crown corporation does not need to follow gov regulation but somehow is governed by the gov!

Confused & bemused in Ireland!
Cheers
t

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss


_______________________________________________
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--
Jean-Noé Landry
<a href="tel:514.237.5438" value="+15142375438" target="_blank">514.237.5438 


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Re: wow! cance the census and mail delivery

Tracey P. Lauriault
Can I site your name ted or do you prefer to be an intrepid data digger ?


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 8:55 PM, Ted Strauss <[hidden email]> wrote:
A quick google search found several examples where this two thirds figure has been cited.
I'm focussing on this one figure, but this is just one detail in complicated issue.

And here is the source press release from can post http://www.canadapost.ca/cpo/mc/aboutus/news/pr/2013/2013_action_plan.jsf
"Over the next five years, the one third of Canadian households that receive their mail at their door will be converted to community mailbox delivery. This change will provide significant savings to Canada Post and will have no impact on the two thirds of Canadian households that already receive their mail and parcels through community mailboxes, grouped or lobby mailboxes or rural mailboxes."


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Ted Strauss <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sure


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ted can I post your analysis on Datalibre.ca?


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 8:44 PM, Ted Strauss <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks Tracy, 
I think I found the solution to the "two thirds" mystery on page 9.  See the attached table below.
When they say that two thirds of Canadians do not get mail to their door, they are parsing that figure very carefully.
40% get mail to their door.
20% get mail in the lobby of their building.
5% get mail at the end of their driveway.
That's a subtotal of 65% that most sane people would define as "to their door".
29% get mail at a group mailbox in the neighbourhood.
5% get mail at the post office.

So actually two thirds of Canadians DO get mail delivered to their domicile, even if said mail is not directly touching their front door.

Inline image 1

-ted


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ted & JN, and other civicaccessers, please download this document like crazy, and please take screen captures of the Conference Board of Canada members and be sure to include the date of the download and the url.  These records have a funny way to dissapear!  I put my copy up on slide share and on face book!

http://www.slideshare.net/TraceyLauriault/13-290-postalservice.  Also recall the other CF of Canada debacle with plagiarism! http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4000/125/

Cheers
t


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 7:44 PM, jn landry <[hidden email]> wrote:
The Government keeps refering to a report issued by the Conference Board of Canada entitled the Future of Postal Service in Canada to justify its decision.
 
 
To note: Canada Post's CEO, Deepak Chopra is a board member of the Conference Board of Canada.
 
 
Jean-Noé
 
 


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Ted Strauss <[hidden email]> wrote:
Tracy,
Last week when the announcement dropped, a lot of reporters kept repeating a particular data point
that was conveyed by the Canada Post execs (or whoever it was who made this announcement).
That data point was that "two thirds of Canadians already don't receive home delivery".
I don't know where that figure comes from, and it sounds suspect to me.
Two thirds of what? The population, the regional area, the number of municipalities? 
This figure was very effective at framing the issue as reasonable and invevitable to the average person.
But we should be checking the available data on canada post, thanks for the reminder.
Ted



On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just what kinda country do we live in?  Anybody in canada following the Canada Post story?

I find it interesting that we live in an evidence based society, but alas, where is the evidence that this is the best decision? What is the report that led to this?  Where are the data to support this?

So how come a crown corporation does not need to follow gov regulation but somehow is governed by the gov!

Confused & bemused in Ireland!
Cheers
t

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Re: wow! cance the census and mail delivery

Ted Strauss
Sure you can cute me. 

Sent from my iPod

On 2013-12-16, at 3:57 PM, "Tracey P. Lauriault" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Can I site your name ted or do you prefer to be an intrepid data digger ?


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 8:55 PM, Ted Strauss <[hidden email]> wrote:
A quick google search found several examples where this two thirds figure has been cited.
I'm focussing on this one figure, but this is just one detail in complicated issue.

And here is the source press release from can post http://www.canadapost.ca/cpo/mc/aboutus/news/pr/2013/2013_action_plan.jsf
"Over the next five years, the one third of Canadian households that receive their mail at their door will be converted to community mailbox delivery. This change will provide significant savings to Canada Post and will have no impact on the two thirds of Canadian households that already receive their mail and parcels through community mailboxes, grouped or lobby mailboxes or rural mailboxes."


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Ted Strauss <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sure


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ted can I post your analysis on Datalibre.ca?


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 8:44 PM, Ted Strauss <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks Tracy, 
I think I found the solution to the "two thirds" mystery on page 9.  See the attached table below.
When they say that two thirds of Canadians do not get mail to their door, they are parsing that figure very carefully.
40% get mail to their door.
20% get mail in the lobby of their building.
5% get mail at the end of their driveway.
That's a subtotal of 65% that most sane people would define as "to their door".
29% get mail at a group mailbox in the neighbourhood.
5% get mail at the post office.

So actually two thirds of Canadians DO get mail delivered to their domicile, even if said mail is not directly touching their front door.

<canadapost.JPG>

-ted


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ted & JN, and other civicaccessers, please download this document like crazy, and please take screen captures of the Conference Board of Canada members and be sure to include the date of the download and the url.  These records have a funny way to dissapear!  I put my copy up on slide share and on face book!

http://www.slideshare.net/TraceyLauriault/13-290-postalservice.  Also recall the other CF of Canada debacle with plagiarism! http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4000/125/

Cheers
t


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 7:44 PM, jn landry <[hidden email]> wrote:
The Government keeps refering to a report issued by the Conference Board of Canada entitled the Future of Postal Service in Canada to justify its decision.
 
 
To note: Canada Post's CEO, Deepak Chopra is a board member of the Conference Board of Canada.
 
 
Jean-Noé
 
 


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Ted Strauss <[hidden email]> wrote:
Tracy,
Last week when the announcement dropped, a lot of reporters kept repeating a particular data point
that was conveyed by the Canada Post execs (or whoever it was who made this announcement).
That data point was that "two thirds of Canadians already don't receive home delivery".
I don't know where that figure comes from, and it sounds suspect to me.
Two thirds of what? The population, the regional area, the number of municipalities? 
This figure was very effective at framing the issue as reasonable and invevitable to the average person.
But we should be checking the available data on canada post, thanks for the reminder.
Ted



On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just what kinda country do we live in?  Anybody in canada following the Canada Post story?

I find it interesting that we live in an evidence based society, but alas, where is the evidence that this is the best decision? What is the report that led to this?  Where are the data to support this?

So how come a crown corporation does not need to follow gov regulation but somehow is governed by the gov!

Confused & bemused in Ireland!
Cheers
t

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Re: wow! cance the census and mail delivery

Tracey P. Lauriault
Yes you are cute and i will properly quote you tomorrow.

g'night all!

On Monday, December 16, 2013, Ted Strauss wrote:
Sure you can cute me. 

Sent from my iPod

On 2013-12-16, at 3:57 PM, "Tracey P. Lauriault" <<a href="javascript:_e({}, &#39;cvml&#39;, &#39;tlauriau@gmail.com&#39;);" target="_blank">tlauriau@...> wrote:

Can I site your name ted or do you prefer to be an intrepid data digger ?


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 8:55 PM, Ted Strauss <<a href="javascript:_e({}, &#39;cvml&#39;, &#39;ted.strauss@gmail.com&#39;);" target="_blank">ted.strauss@...> wrote:
A quick google search found several examples where this two thirds figure has been cited.
I'm focussing on this one figure, but this is just one detail in complicated issue.

And here is the source press release from can post http://www.canadapost.ca/cpo/mc/aboutus/news/pr/2013/2013_action_plan.jsf
"Over the next five years, the one third of Canadian households that receive their mail at their door will be converted to community mailbox delivery. This change will provide significant savings to Canada Post and will have no impact on the two thirds of Canadian households that already receive their mail and parcels through community mailboxes, grouped or lobby mailboxes or rural mailboxes."


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Ted Strauss <<a href="javascript:_e({}, &#39;cvml&#39;, &#39;ted.strauss@gmail.com&#39;);" target="_blank">ted.strauss@...> wrote:
Sure


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <<a href="javascript:_e({}, &#39;cvml&#39;, &#39;tlauriau@gmail.com&#39;);" target="_blank">tlauriau@...> wrote:
Ted can I post your analysis on Datalibre.ca?


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 8:44 PM, Ted Strauss <<a href="javascript:_e({}, &#39;cvml&#39;, &#39;ted.strauss@gmail.com&#39;);" target="_blank">ted.strauss@...> wrote:
Thanks Tracy, 
I think I found the solution to the "two thirds" mystery on page 9.  See the attached table below.
When they say that two thirds of Canadians do not get mail to their door, they are parsing that figure very carefully.
40% get mail to their door.
20% get mail in the lobby of their building.
5% get mail at the end of their driveway.
That's a subtotal of 65% that most sane people would define as "to their door".
29% get mail at a group mailbox in the neighbourhood.
5% get mail at the post office.

So actually two thirds of Canadians DO get mail delivered to their domicile, even if said mail is not directly touching their front door.

<canadapost.JPG>

-ted


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ted & JN, and other civicaccessers, please download this document like crazy, and please take screen captures of the Conference Board of Canada members and be sure to include the date of the download and the url.  These records have a funny way to dissapear!  I put my copy up on slide share and on face book!

http://www.slideshare.net/TraceyLauriault/13-290-postalservice.  Also recall the other CF of Canada debacle with plagiarism! http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4000/125/

Cheers
t


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 7:44 PM, jn landry <[hidden email]> wrote:
The Government keeps refering to a report issued by the Conference Board of Canada entitled the Future of Postal Service in Canada to justify its decision.
 
 
To note: Canada Post's CEO, Deepak Chopra is a board member of the Conference Board of Canada.
 
 
Jean-Noé
 
 


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Ted Strauss <[hidden email]> wrote:
Tracy,
Last week when the announcement dropped, a lot of reporters kept repeating a particular data point
that was conveyed by the Canada Post execs (or whoever it was who made this announcement).
That data point was that "two thirds of Canadians already don't receive home delivery".
I don't know where that figure comes from, and it sounds suspect to me.
Two thirds of what? The population, the regional area, the number of municipalities? 
This figure was very effective at framing the issue as reasonable and invevitable to the average person.
But we should be checking the available data on canada post, thanks for the reminder.
Ted



On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just what kinda country do we live in?  Anybody in canada following the Canada Post story?

I find it interesting that we live in an evidence based society, but alas, where is the evidence that this is the best decision? What is the report that led to this?  Where are the data to support this?

So how come a crown corporation does not need to follow gov regulation but somehow is governed by the gov!

Confused & bemused in Ireland!
Cheers
t

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Re: wow! cance the census and mail delivery

Karl Dubost
In reply to this post by Ted Strauss
That's an interesting data point, but that would deserve to be split into distributions and areas.

See below…

Le 16 déc. 2013 à 15:44, Ted Strauss <[hidden email]> a écrit :
> 40% get mail to their door.
> 20% get mail in the lobby of their building.
> 5% get mail at the end of their driveway.
> That's a subtotal of 65% that most sane people would define as "to their door".
> 29% get mail at a group mailbox in the neighbourhood.
> 5% get mail at the post office.

These are global figures collected by Genesis Public Opinion Research Inc. which sounds like a survey firm more than global stats.
* TODO: What is Genesis Public Opinion Research Inc.
* TODO: What is the sample size for these stats?
* TODO: Which areas did they cover?

Canada is a very very specific country, it is one of the largest in the world, with many people having *secondary* households in the woods.
* TODO: How was counted the secondary households in the stats?

Also still because of the nature of Canada, indeed coverage of large areas is an economical issue, which is worth studying. There are probably huge differences between a village in Abitibi and Montreal downtown.
* TODO: What are the stats by different areas across Canada with the labeling and the density of the area?


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Re: wow! cance the census and mail delivery

Ted Strauss
In reply to this post by Tracey P. Lauriault
oops. i think my mobile autotexted 'cite' to 'cute'.
I took a look at your blog post, and i think it needs some tweaks.
i'll contact you off list.


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yes you are cute and i will properly quote you tomorrow.

g'night all!


On Monday, December 16, 2013, Ted Strauss wrote:
Sure you can cute me. 

Sent from my iPod

On 2013-12-16, at 3:57 PM, "Tracey P. Lauriault" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Can I site your name ted or do you prefer to be an intrepid data digger ?


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 8:55 PM, Ted Strauss <[hidden email]> wrote:
A quick google search found several examples where this two thirds figure has been cited.
I'm focussing on this one figure, but this is just one detail in complicated issue.

And here is the source press release from can post http://www.canadapost.ca/cpo/mc/aboutus/news/pr/2013/2013_action_plan.jsf
"Over the next five years, the one third of Canadian households that receive their mail at their door will be converted to community mailbox delivery. This change will provide significant savings to Canada Post and will have no impact on the two thirds of Canadian households that already receive their mail and parcels through community mailboxes, grouped or lobby mailboxes or rural mailboxes."


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Ted Strauss <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sure


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ted can I post your analysis on Datalibre.ca?


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 8:44 PM, Ted Strauss <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks Tracy, 
I think I found the solution to the "two thirds" mystery on page 9.  See the attached table below.
When they say that two thirds of Canadians do not get mail to their door, they are parsing that figure very carefully.
40% get mail to their door.
20% get mail in the lobby of their building.
5% get mail at the end of their driveway.
That's a subtotal of 65% that most sane people would define as "to their door".
29% get mail at a group mailbox in the neighbourhood.
5% get mail at the post office.

So actually two thirds of Canadians DO get mail delivered to their domicile, even if said mail is not directly touching their front door.

<canadapost.JPG>

-ted


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ted & JN, and other civicaccessers, please download this document like crazy, and please take screen captures of the Conference Board of Canada members and be sure to include the date of the download and the url.  These records have a funny way to dissapear!  I put my copy up on slide share and on face book!

http://www.slideshare.net/TraceyLauriault/13-290-postalservice.  Also recall the other CF of Canada debacle with plagiarism! http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4000/125/

Cheers
t


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 7:44 PM, jn landry <[hidden email]> wrote:
The Government keeps refering to a report issued by the Conference Board of Canada entitled the Future of Postal Service in Canada to justify its decision.
 
 
To note: Canada Post's CEO, Deepak Chopra is a board member of the Conference Board of Canada.
 
 
Jean-Noé
 
 


On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Ted Strauss <[hidden email]> wrote:
Tracy,
Last week when the announcement dropped, a lot of reporters kept repeating a particular data point
that was conveyed by the Canada Post execs (or whoever it was who made this announcement).
That data point was that "two thirds of Canadians already don't receive home delivery".
I don't know where that figure comes from, and it sounds suspect to me.
Two thirds of what? The population, the regional area, the number of municipalities? 
This figure was very effective at framing the issue as reasonable and invevitable to the average person.
But we should be checking the available data on canada post, thanks for the reminder.
Ted



On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just what kinda country do we live in?  Anybody in canada following the Canada Post story?

I find it interesting that we live in an evidence based society, but alas, where is the evidence that this is the best decision? What is the report that led to this?  Where are the data to support this?

So how come a crown corporation does not need to follow gov regulation but somehow is governed by the gov!

Confused & bemused in Ireland!
Cheers
t

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Re: wow! cance the census and mail delivery

Tracey P. Lauriault
In reply to this post by Karl Dubost
Good morning Gang!

Karl & Ted, and others; I BCC'd some media people as they may be able to do more with these findings story than we can.  If they do, I hope they will reference the civicaccess.ca list and datalibre.ca! (see the thread here http://civicaccess.48776.x6.nabble.com/wow-cance-the-census-and-mail-delivery-td6384.html)

THis looks like the sample size, perhaps those of you with a more statistical mind can see what your thoughts are on this sample size the the estimated numbers reported:

The target sample included approximately 500 customers who get mail delivered to their door (DTD), 300 who use group mailboxes (CMB), 250 who receive mail in their lobby or common area (LBA), 100 who have mail delivered to the end of their driveways (RMB), and 60 who have postal boxes in Canada Post or private buildings (DFLB). This roughly mirrors the current distribution of customers by delivery category, with an oversample of rural driveway customers.

A total of 1,212 residential customers, 18 years of age or older, were surveyed by telephone from September 26 to October 10, 2012. The results are considered accurate to within +/- 2.8 per cent, 19 times in 20.

Genesis explored the views of small businesses through a two-stage process. The first stage was a series of five focus groups, held in Moncton, Montréal, Mississauga, Brandon, and Calgary. The second stage involved a telephone survey of individuals in small businesses who make decisions on postal products and services within their company.

The interviews were conducted with 800 businesses selected randomly from among a nationwide pool of businesses with more than 1 but fewer than 100 employees. The sample was generated using data from Dunn and  Bradstreet. The source data for the sample were stratified by employee size, region, and Standard Industrial Classification (SIC). Only businesses with 2 to 100 fulltime employees were eligible for inclusion in the final sample. The sample was then randomly drawn from businesses across the full range of over 1,000 SIC codes, but it excluded Canada Post, print and electronic media, hospitals, educational institutions, and all three levels of government.

Also, Genesis Public Opinion Research Inc has a standing offer with the Government of Canada to do this research - see here http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/rop-por/fournisseurs-firms-eng.html.  Well if this is the shop, then it is pretty small - http://www.salespider.com/b-143469756/genesis-public-opinion-research-inc, one employee? maybe you can find more!

Another company that is also mentioned, the one that did the econometric analysis which was not unpacked in terms of datasets, algorithm, etc. is http://www.zenithoptimedia.com/shop/.  A big data analytical shop.   ZenithOptiMedia is also a media agency with shops in Toronto and Montreal http://www.agencysearch.ca/agencydetails/zenithoptimedia-canada-inc/.

Dunn and Bradsheet which supplied some corporate data - http://www.dnb.ca/

It is interesting, as again, the Bio of the CEO is bit on data analytics, and it seems no accident that a data driven approach and a direct marketing approach is being taken at CP.

a Physical Delivery Network, which offers highly competitive mail and parcel delivery to every household; and a Digital Delivery Network, which is responsible for the epost electronic delivery solutions, online properties and consumer experience while supporting the Direct Marketing industry with location data analytics.

The CEO was formerly with Pitney Bowes which has a direct marketing mailing package system that it sells with Canada post, and the CEO was formerly with this company - http://www.pitneybowes.ca/home.shtml, and produces mailing software solutions http://www.pitneybowes.ca/software/mailing-software/index.shtml with a post metering system http://www.pbmeteroffer.ca/.  Hmmm!  Corporations can get mailing meter reductions but the public will not?  What then is a public service?

Voici le rapport en Francais - http://www.conferenceboard.ca/temp/f66f74b8-2a52-41fc-988e-39388230895f/13-315_postalservice_fr.pdf

Finally, here I am starting to look at big data analytical shops, we know very little about them, and I think we need to know more as they are very influential entities, especially with all of these standing offers.  CIPPIC howeved produced this excellent good report on data brokers (https://www.cippic.ca/sites/default/files/May1-06/DatabrokerReport.pdf) and there some some papers coming out, see these here - http://dhg.sagepub.com/content/current , if you want any of these let me know.  GeoConnections will also be producing a big data report produced by Yvan Bedard at Laval.

Alright, you are all sleeping and it is time for me to start my day job here.

Cheers
Tracey


On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:11 AM, Karl Dubost <[hidden email]> wrote:
That's an interesting data point, but that would deserve to be split into distributions and areas.

See below…

Le 16 déc. 2013 à 15:44, Ted Strauss <[hidden email]> a écrit :
> 40% get mail to their door.
> 20% get mail in the lobby of their building.
> 5% get mail at the end of their driveway.
> That's a subtotal of 65% that most sane people would define as "to their door".
> 29% get mail at a group mailbox in the neighbourhood.
> 5% get mail at the post office.

These are global figures collected by Genesis Public Opinion Research Inc. which sounds like a survey firm more than global stats.
* TODO: What is Genesis Public Opinion Research Inc.
* TODO: What is the sample size for these stats?
* TODO: Which areas did they cover?

Canada is a very very specific country, it is one of the largest in the world, with many people having *secondary* households in the woods.
* TODO: How was counted the secondary households in the stats?

Also still because of the nature of Canada, indeed coverage of large areas is an economical issue, which is worth studying. There are probably huge differences between a village in Abitibi and Montreal downtown.
* TODO: What are the stats by different areas across Canada with the labeling and the density of the area?


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