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Re: front de liberation de codes postaux

Posted by Hugh McGuire on Feb 11, 2007; 11:37pm
URL: http://civicaccess.416.s1.nabble.com/front-de-liberation-de-codes-postal-tp884p898.html

just on the postal code thing, I propose we do 3 things:

1. agree on a text of a letter, see here for an editable draft:
http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/PostalCodes

NOTE: i think it needs a bit of context, ie why do we want this data  
now?

2. make a list of groups who we:
a) can ask to support this letter (ie individual & institutional co-
signers)
b) can target to send this letter (ie government reps, newspapers etc)

3. make a web presence or online petition (any thoughts on this?) ...  
either on the civic access page or elsewhere?





On Feb 11, 2007, at 6:11 PM, Michael Lenczner wrote:

> responses inline.
>
> On 2/11/07, liss jeffrey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi Stephane:
>>
>> Yes I think there should be a write up of what you did and perhaps  
>> others
>> might also contribute.
>> Let's anticipate here: the ban by Google Earth, would that be  
>> because they
>> did not want a mass mailer or spammer  using their service to  
>> harvest such
>> info?
>
> I think they're trying to prevent abuse of their computing resources
> and they want the value to be on their system, not on a competing
> system.  So that means keeping the data to themselves.  They pay lots
> of money to assemble their setup, and don't really want poachers.
>
>> Do they have policies against scraping and are there reasons?
>> Is that what's going on with Stats Can? I saw no reference to this in
>> anyone's posts and I sincerely do not know.
>> This is very different, obviously, from cost recovery.
>>
> I don't think that's the issue with Stats Can
>
>> David Mason and I had a very good response from Hansard ( but  
>> again, we did
>> not go beyond the fact finding stage because he got too busy and  
>> my project
>> is civic engagement in democratic life, not scraping and coding  
>> the scraping
>> per se. I am not looking for extra projects as I am quite busy  
>> ( as is
>> everyone else,) but David as you know Stephane , is a lead  
>> developer with
>> our  citizen engagement platforms including the foreign policy  
>> dialogue, and
>> a director of the eCommons/agora, and mutual support is how we always
>> operate.
>> Scraping is a means not an end and it's that end of shaping civic  
>> engagement
>> ( not only access) that I am interested in and competent to  
>> produce. One of
>> many rules in our byDesign eLab was always 'no geek ghettos'  
>> meaning that we
>> all had to find ways to reciprocate and participate in one another's
>> universes, a flattening of the divide between developers and  
>> producers you
>> might say.
>> I do not start from a position of thinking government is evil or  
>> incompetent
>> ( not saying others do, but it is a tempting position and I think  
>> mistaken),
>> and we will be stronger IMO if as you suggest Stephane we  
>> consolidate what
>> we propose to do, the reasons why we want to do this ( as is  
>> happening now
>> in civic access wiki and on list), summarize what people have  
>> tried to do so
>> far and the outcomes, give a list of successful projects elsewhere  
>> ( UK,
>> USA, elsewhere??), establish our legitimacy and intentions, and  
>> then go find
>> out how to remove the obstacles to  democratic action.
>>
> I'm not sure if you're specifically refering to the subject - freeing
> postal code info - or the more general open civic goals.
>
> But in general that's why we created Civic Access.  To have a space to
> do that work.  We've already done a pretty good job on some of it.
>
> see:
> http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/ - for proposal and reasons.
>
> http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/WhatIsCivicData
>
> http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/Resources - a place for people to list
> sources of public data in Canada on a per provice and per city basis.
>
> http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/Tech - definition of technical terms that
> pop up when talking about civic info projects.
>
> http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/ProjetsCiviques - listing of civic projects
> (doesn't have any international ones yet, but someone could add them).
>
> http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/Launch/PublicAnnouncement - drafting of
> public letter.
>
>> I am doubtless missing lots, and while hardly naive may well be  
>> overly
>> optimistic, but the way in can be through the front door and not  
>> just the
>> back door. In any event (1) to get genuine support we have to try  
>> these
>> steps.
>> In any event (2) the alternative has not yet produced the result  
>> we seek.
>> One plan is to have a strategy ready by Feb. 24 so that's 2 weeks  
>> to get the
>> arguments assembled.
>
> If you're specifically referring to liberating postal code info, I
> invite people to use the wiki to do this work.  There's already good
> content there.  And what I like about it is that CivicAccess is
> started by no one person or organization.  So there shouldn't be any
> problems with people feeling like they are contributing to "someone
> else's" project - which can sometimes reduce people's interest to get
> involved.
> I
>> Other ideas?
>
> I guess I'm just wondering what if you're looking for content
> specifically about the postal codes, or about civic projects in
> general.  I'm willing to help gather some resources or write something
> up about similar efforts elsewhere in the world and I'm sure that we
> could write up a public letter asking the feds for electoral / postal
> code info, but I'm not sure if that's what you're looking for.  Also,
> the strategy you're talking about.  I'm unclear who it's for.
>
> sorry for the basic questions.  I'm interested though.
>
> Mike
>
>> DrJ
>>
>>
>>
> <snip>
>
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