http://civicaccess.416.s1.nabble.com/Re-Census-2006-statistics-tp583p600.html
i read thru your comments and wasn't clear on what was disappointing ...
expertise in the area. But I do think that for civicaccess.ca to be
scope of the mission of the organization. we have two routes - we can be
that brings like-minded project-doers together. To me the second is much
census seemed to me to fit that category. it's something people know
obviously information that citizens should have access to. that it's a
small piece of a big puzzle is in fact a good thing. civicaccess has
perhaps I am wrong. I may have missed something, i have not been reading
all the recent posts in detail. And i didn't fully understand your
find ways to advance a noble cause: data freedom for the people. if the
Tracey P. Lauriault wrote:
> Hi Michael;
>
> I am sorry you are disappointed, however, as many have pointed out we
> are trying to make social, economic, political, environmental, health
> etc. data & information available to Canadians. At the moment there is
> no other group doing this. There are however numerous groups working on
> open source issues, and Russel quite rightly pointed you to GOSLING and
> others have pointed you to FACIL and as you are well aware in any city
> you go to in Canada you will find groups of open source advocates doing
> exactly what it is you are looking for.
>
> As Stephane pointed out earlier, focusing on data and information is
> quite a large and broad activity and there needs to be a group in Canada
> to do that.
>
> Also see comments in-line.
>
> Sincerely
> Tracey
>
> Michael Boyle wrote:
>> This whole discussion has been extremely disappointing for a list
>> that I still hope will have some promise
>>
>> 1. The Census form is a tiny part of all government online
>> endeavours. No one here has presented any evidence that it is any way
>> representative of anything - especially nothing "further than we
>> target".
>>
> The government of Canada has 12 Federal departments, numerous research
> institutes, data collecting agencies and Statistics Canada conducts
> hundreds of surveys and in fact manages the national accounts. The
> Census is but one part.
>> 2. No one has made the case that a (certainly) quite ridiculous
>> browser requirement has anything to do with data accessibility later
>> on. Furthermore, there is no evidence that what happens on one side
>> of the census bears any relationship, online, to what comes out the
>> other end.
>>
>> 3. So before we get out the pitchforks and torches and storm the
>> castle, it might be worthwhile to try to understand what government
>> policy is related to open standards and how policies such as these
>> are made.
>>
> See -
>
> GOSLING -
http://GOSLINGcommunity.org> FACIL -
http://facil.qc.ca/PageAccueil>
>> 4. I read the pages on the Stats Can website closely and I don't see
>> that the information on the site has changed one bit. I don't
>> understand how this is a "victory"? The site always said that the JVM
>> was the issue.
>>
>> 5. A petition has to be presented TO someone. There is no single body
>> that makes this decision for the government. And if there were, it
>> would certainly not be in any position to ENFORCE the decision.
>> That's just not how government policy works.
>>
>> 6. The actual evidence of what the Canadian government IS doing that
>> is a GREAT deal more optimistic than the census. If there were a
>> central agency who decided this stuff for everyone, the Treasury
>> Board Secretariat would be it. Here's their take on this kind of
>> thing: "
http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/ig-gi/index_e.asp". Note that they
>> can only recommend, not decide. Also note that there are at least 8
>> different laws and policies that have to be adhered to by every
>> government website. So though the census site decision might very
>> well have been faulty, that doesn't really mean that much.
>>
>> So, please, can we move on to something more significant? Tracey has
>> been making great points about an important issue - data
>> accessibility later on - which seems much closer to the intent of
>> this list and the overall effort. And Michael has been trying to do
>> some interesting organizing of meetings and such.
>>
> We are starting up and people get a feel for things on a complex topic.
> And I like the energy that is coming together on the Census, and we have
> 2 conference presentations lined up, and we have been featured by one of
> our members at a conference in Paris. So I believe we are moving on
> with things and getting to know each other at the same time.
>
> Cheers
> T
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> On 16-May-06, at 4:04 PM, Stephane Guidoin wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hi Richard,
>>>
>>>
>>>> What about making the petition for "a policy for open standers for
>>>> Government of Canada websites and web delivered information"? We
>>>> could
>>>> site the census2006 as an example.
>>>>
>>>> Just a thought. I think that this serve the greater propose and
>>>> fits into
>>>> the CivicAccess mandate does it not.
>>>>
>>> It's true and it's even an element that goes further than what we
>>> target. Our
>>> target (for the census for example), is more to have access to the
>>> data. I
>>> think some other groups focus more on the "open standard" question and
>>> obivously we should agree with them. But our task (to get public
>>> data... public
>>> !) is already vast not to take the risk to lose our focus.
>>>
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>> Michael Boyle www.mikel.org <
http://www.mikel.org>
>>
>>
>>
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