He invited comments. :) I also used the term ignorant in the kindest
philosophical way. I like the approach of attracting people from many
perspectives while also not forsaking freedom. Bill Gates "got" the internet
in 95 and if freedom means anything it must include all transmission modes.
Most people are not just using sneaknet floppies for their GIS data. If we
are to be principled we need to advocate free speech not just free beer.
interchange is a very limited view of freedom. If I seem like a zealot it's
they essentially stand for nothing.
civilization.
> Hey Jason,
>
> "You are way off base here." and "I'm sorry but this paragraph is
> woefully ignorant."
>
> That's a bit harsh. Please check the etiquette page to see the norms
> for the site. This is not a rough and tumble linux-user group mailing
> list. We have lots of people with lots of different backgrounds,
> there are going to be lots of misunderstandings and we've got to keep
> things really . . . civil ;-)
>
>
http://www.civicaccess.ca/wiki/Launch/Etiquette>
> thanks.
>
> On 5/4/06, Jason Loughead <
[hidden email]> wrote:
> > My turn.
> >
> > On Thursday 04 May 2006 8:46 am, Grignon, Alain wrote:
> > > Richard,
> > >
> > > I may be way off base here, and please step in if I am but I believe
> > > the Linux debate/browser compatibility doesn't fall within the scope of
> > > CivicAccess. At least as I understand it.
> >
> > You are way off base here. What makes you think the browser debate
> > doesn't include open standards on the internet? Word processors and
> > website code are both simply bits of instructions. When I as a citizen
> > want to fully participate in government and gathering or submitting data
> > who cares if I am denied by code on the net or code residing on my
> > computer? The point is I'm being denied access, period. It's my RIGHT as
> > a citizen of this country to expect equal access. Read more information
> > on the history of the internet, TCP/IP, HTTP, the battle fought and won
> > back then are at risk by laisse faire people who let corporations control
> > our access to information.
> >
> > > That doesn't
> > > necessarily mean it has to be accessible to all browser types/Oses.
> > > Anyone try using BeOS? Unix? Somewhere a line must be drawn in order to
> > > allow government web services to evolve. Being a public servant myself,
> > > I graple with these issues daily. There is a balance to be truck
> > > between making things accessible and keeping inline with current
> > > technologies.
> >
> > I'm sorry but this paragraph is woefully ignorant. If a browser can an
> > operating system that is compliant with http 4.1 transitional, and has a
> > TCP/IP stack it's nobody's business if I made my own operating system
> > from scratch. You're missing the entire point of standards, it's to
> > ensure compatability not to be an impediment to technological evolution.
> > The alternative is going back to using Archie (the University of
> > Minnesota own this software and has threatened to extract royalty fees
> > from every user), or Compuserve, or regressing back to unix days when
> > many protocols were created by each university. In fact this is where
> > TCP/IP came from it's an amalgamation of 32 different protocols. Previous
> > to this you had to be a hacker and know byte endianness, and script
> > wrappers between
> > terminal "standards". This debate is entirely appropraite to open
> > document formats and access to information. For clarity (and in case
> > you're using BeOS or Unix, those great unknowns apparently) here is the
> > mission from CivicAccess's website.
> >
> > Citizens for Open Access to Civic Information and Data (CivicAccess) is a
> > group of citizens which believes all levels of government should make
> > civic information and data accessible at no cost in open formats to their
> > citizens. We believe this is necessary to allow citizens to fully
> > participate in the democractic process of an "information society."
> > Objectives:
> > To encourage all levels of governments (county, municipal, provincial,
> > federal) to make civic data and information available to citizens without
> > restrictions, at no cost, and in useable open formats.
> > To encourage the development of citizen projects using civic data and
> > information
> > Making civic data and information freely available to citizens is
> > important because:
> > Citizen participation in decision-making is fundamental to democracy
> > Good decisions are made by informed citizens
> > Quality civic data and information are fundamental to keeping citizens
> > informed in an "information society"
> > Taxes have already paid for civic data and information; therefore these
> > should be made available at no cost to citizens
> > Citizen projects using civic data will generate innovative solutions to
> > social, economic and environmental problems
> > Citizen projects using civic data will allow citizens to creatively plan
> > their communities
> > This is what a democracy looks like!
> >
> > Jason
> >
> > > Just my thoughts.
> > >
> > >
> > > Alain Grignon
> > > Landslide GIS Specialist / Spécialiste SIG en glissements de terrains
> > > Geological Survey of Canada / Commission géologique du Canada
> > > 601 Booth st. / 601 rue Booth
> > > Ottawa, Ont.
> > > Tel: (613) 947-8773
> > >
http://landslides.nrcan.gc.ca/> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From:
[hidden email]
> > > [mailto:
[hidden email]] Sent: May 3, 2006
> > > 10:57 PM
> > > To:
[hidden email]
> > > Subject: [CivicAccess-discuss] Canada Census on line
> > >
> > > Hey all,
> > >
> > > Not sure if this falls into civicaccess's mandate but I figured I would
> > > pass it on.
> > >
> > > Today I tried to fill out my census info on-line (www.census2006.ca).
> > > When I tried to get started I got this
> > >
> > > "Your browser does not meet the minimum requirements to access this
> > > site
> > >
> > > The current version of browser you are using is not supported by this
> > > site.
> > >
> > > To download a supported version of browser, please refer to: To
> > > download the required software. If you do not wish to download a new
> > > browser, you can complete your paper questionnaire and return it by
> > > mail in the envelope provided."
> > >
> > > So I called the help desk. I asked them why I get this messages and
> > > that I met all the requirements with one small exception. I was on
> > > Linux. I was told that Linux was not supported and I would have to use
> > > Windows or Mac to access the site. I asked him why this was and the
> > > help desk guy told me that as Linux was not all that popular so it was
> > > not supported and would not likely be supported anytime soon. I took
> > > some time to try and educate this gentleman about how the Internet
> > > should not have a specific operating system requirement but I don't
> > > think he was really listening or cared.
> > >
> > > Is there any one I can contact on this in the government or is there a
> > > anything the group can do to bring open standers argument to Census
> > > Canada's website? As this is census update time I am sure that there
> > > are other Linux users out there that are having issues. I am not
> > > pushing a Linux agenda here but I am pushing for open standards for the
> > > government of Canada's website.
> > >
> > > I know the group is just starting to get going but is this maybe a good
> > > starting point for some action?
> > >
> > > If not any help in pointing me in the direction of someone I can
> > > contact to complain would be much appreciated.
> > >
> > > +------------------------------------+
> > > Best regards,
> > > -Richard Houston
> > > -R.L.H. Consulting
> > > -E-Mail
[hidden email]
> > > -WWW
http://www.rlhc.net> > > -Blog
http://www.rlhc.net/blog/> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> > >
[hidden email]
> > >
http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.
> > >ca
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> > >
[hidden email]
> > >
http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.
> > >ca
> >
> > --
> > Software shouldn't be your struggle
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> >
[hidden email]
> >
http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>
[hidden email]
>
http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca