Tracey P. Lauriault wrote:
> beautiful!
>
> do you edit phd dissertations ;) ?
>
> Hugh McGuire wrote:
>
>>another tweak, mainly: 1st para to:
>>
>>Citizens for Open Access to Civic Information and Data (COACID)
>>(AccèsCivique/CivicAccess for short!) believes all levels of government
>>should make civic information and data accessible at no cost in open
>>formats to their citizens. We believe this is necessary to allow
>>citizens to fully participate in the democractic process of an
>>"information society."
>>
>>(that,s just a reverse of the two sentences & some editing). some other
>>minor changes, see:
>>
http://www.civicaccess.ca/wiki/About>>
>>h.
>>
>>
>>
>>Tracey P. Lauriault wrote:
>>
>>
>>> i incorporated the new changes -
http://www.civicaccess.ca/wiki/About>>>
>>>see very brief comments below
>>>
>>>
>>>Hugh McGuire wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>sorry late deadlines today, so comments below might seem a bit blunt, I
>>>>don't mean to be!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> 1. I found this -
http://www.digital-copyright.ca/node/1997, and i
>>>>> have to say that I like seeing the full name even if it long - it
>>>>> is very descriptive. I think we can use the long name in this way
>>>>> - Citizens for Open Access to Civic Information and Data
>>>>> (AccèsCivique/CivicAccess for short!). if you google CivicAccess
>>>>> all kinds of stuff comes up!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>I think the name is too long (esp with french/english). no one will
>>>>remember "citizens for open acccess to civic information and data" (I
>>>>can't & I'm a founding member! I can't even remember the acronym is it
>>>>coacid? coaicd?). if you put into google:
>>>>citizens+open+access+civic+information+data you get 5,940,000 results.
>>>>
>>>>civicaccess.ca is easy to remember and is what the project is about. i
>>>>think shorter is better. you don't have to google civicaccess if you can
>>>>remember civicaccess.ca.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>see the compromise.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> 2. It is important to keep the word - information - along with the
>>>>> word - data - , as sometimes data come in nicely & not so nicely
>>>>> packaged formats - web pages, reports, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>I'm not sure I understand the distinction. is it that data is ugly &
>>>>info is clean? my understanding of the project is: give us the data &
>>>>we'll make it clean. don,t worry about spending tax money on cleaning it
>>>>(thnat would be nice, but)... we'll clean it if we have to. just give it
>>>>to us. seems to me data does the job - though maybe it,s a scary word
>>>>for some. information is defn easier. not sure on this one.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>data - is a scarry 4 letter word in some communities so information is
>>>better. Originally the including the word data was considered troublesome!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> 3. Terms such as - freely available & should be free - are
>>>>> problematic since at the moment data and information are freely
>>>>> available and are free - as in freedom or foi - but they are not
>>>>> for free, terms such as - at no cost, gratis, etc. are more
>>>>> precise.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>yes. maybe "at no cost" is better.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>see change
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> 4. Data - are plural.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>ok.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> 5. The geographer in me is obsessed with scale - so when i refer to
>>>>> governments i use the term levels, to ensure that counties and
>>>>> feds are included - as sometimes it is harder to get data and
>>>>> information from the smallest unit of gov or the one closest to
>>>>> you as a citizen (e.g. where are the hazardous waste sites in my
>>>>> city - cities are reluctant to publish these for insurance claim
>>>>> issues).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>again, brevity. landing page should be as quick & clear as possible.
>>>>govt levels is an important issue that should be clarified in a bigger
>>>>document, but as a citizen/participant I am agreeing with: governemnt
>>>>should make data available. this should imply municipal, prov, fed. etc.
>>>>
>>>> 6. in the rubric of - gov, info highway, economics, life the universe
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> and everything - it is important to keep the term - information
>>>>> society - ironically canada markets itself as such and it is
>>>>> important to push walking the talk and using terms in the current
>>>>> national discourse taglines
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>ok. but it's an imprecise & throw-away term, but may help explain what
>>>>we're going on about to average joes. but do people really still use the
>>>>term? I haven't heard it since 1998 ;)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>oh well!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> 7. the terms - reliable, accurate, authentic and timely - are
>>>>> important, scientists want to work with good quality data not
>>>>> outdated poorly collected cheap data, currently, there are some
>>>>> scientific data, maps, remote sensing images, available for free
>>>>> in all the ways we want them to be, but alas, they are old (e.g.
>>>>> air quality data for 1992 not today!) or are not accompanied by
>>>>> metadata that explain the fit for use and the quality of the
>>>>> data. Also, these terms are important in the world of archives,
>>>>> currently there is discussion in canada on developing a data
>>>>> archive and there is ongoing research to incorporate these
>>>>> concepts - see the InterPares Project -
>>>>>
http://interpares.org/ip2/ip2_domain2.cfm>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Once again, this should be clarified in main docs, but I don't think the
>>>>landing page should deal with such important issues. they are secondary
>>>>to a commitment on the part of the govt to provide the data. this should
>>>>imply good data.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>see change
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> 8. What to do with this sentence? - " Access to civic data is impeded
>>>>> by cost recovery, IP, poor or unsuitable formatting, a lack of
>>>>> discovery strategies, security and confidentiality. " These are
>>>>> the biggies that are keeping data out of the hands of citizens, if
>>>>> you chat with folks, you will soon find out that they are mostly
>>>>> unaware of these concepts. So i want them there somehow. Can you
>>>>> help make that work hugh or anyone else? See what I did.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>does not belong in objectives...maybe there needs to be a section: "why
>>>>are we fighting and what are we fighting against." but I would suggest
>>>>that should be elsewhere. thoughts?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>kay - policy page - see mod
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> 9. Keeping the word taxation is important - as once people realize
>>>>> they have already paid for the stuff, they get awfully incensed
>>>>> when they have to pay for them again. Currently federal
>>>>> departments purchase data from statcan and provinces - which in
>>>>> effect means we pay for the same data 4 time! a rather inefficient
>>>>> use of tax dollars!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>I think it was in there, but I agree fully. It's our data & we paid for
>>>>it! this to me is the most compelling logical argument. who are you
>>>>(governments) to be charging me for stuff I've paid for. That's a very
>>>>powerful image.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>done
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> 10. Over sensitivity to confidentiality - need advice here, i am a
>>>>> firm believer in confidentiality, however oversensitivity to this
>>>>> concept is problematic, for example, aggregated health data is not
>>>>> being released, think sars and avian flu and ebola outbreaks as
>>>>> examples. i do not want coacid to sound like we do not support
>>>>> confidentiality but want highlight that institutions are
>>>>> withholding critical aggregated information & data and using
>>>>> confidentiality as an excuse.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>yes must be careful here. it's a very important issue on both ends. the
>>>>important point is that we don't want info about individuals.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>for the policy page
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> 11. Can you look at the 5th bullet - i would like to include your
>>>>> point a) innovative solutions and also b) creatively plan - cuz
>>>>> new interesting and creative proposals are also important! It is
>>>>> also in the spirit of what was there - re-visioning which i
>>>>> thought was really nice.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>the problem i have with reenvisioning is that it means so many different
>>>>things to different people. why would I (a ottawa beaurocrat, minister,
>>>>or media person) support a big project to reenvision society? what does
>>>>it mean? what,s in it for me? what's in it for the country?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>see page
>>>cheers
>>>t
>>>ps-good luck with the deadline!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>hugh.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Cheers
>>>>>Tracey
>>>>>ps-can still be tweaked i think.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Michael Lenczner wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>i think it's great! thanks hugh
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On 3/28/06, Hugh McGuire <
[hidden email]> <mailto:
[hidden email]> <mailto:
[hidden email]> <mailto:
[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Here is my proposal for the intro text - might as well be on the front
>>>>>>>page (?), but it's modified from the "about" on the wiki. For the
>>>>>>>landing page, it would need more info. for consideration:
>>>>>>>****
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Accès Civique/Civic Access (ACCA) believes that government-collected
>>>>>>>civic data should be free for citizens to use, and available in open
>>>>>>>formats.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Our Objectives:
>>>>>>>1. to encourage governments to make civic data free and available in
>>>>>>>open formats
>>>>>>>2. to encourage development of citizen projects using civic data
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Making civic data freely available to citizens is important because:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>*citizen participation in decision-making is fundamental to democracy
>>>>>>>*the best decisions are made by informed citizens
>>>>>>>*access to civic data is fundamental to keeping citizens informed
>>>>>>>*civic data is gathered on behalf of citizens; it should be freely
>>>>>>>available for them to use in constructive ways
>>>>>>>*citizen projects using civic data will generate innovative solutions to
>>>>>>>problems
>>>>>>>*this is what a democracy looks like!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The role of this wiki is to complement [WWW] civicaccess-discuss to
>>>>>>>create a community of people across Canada who share these beliefs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Stephane Guidoin wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I agree with both remarks :
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>- The sentenses on the splash screen could be more precise about our goal.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>- The more it goes, the more we use CivicAccess instead of COACID. COACID gives
>>>>>>>>a clearer definition but usually people don't really notice the signification
>>>>>>>>of words in such names/acronyms. So we may simply remove COACID and remain with
>>>>>>>>CivicAccess. Is it necessary to keep an acronym like CAAC ? I don't think. We
>>>>>>>>could just use CivicAccess + the little motto Hugh sent "It's our data. Let us
>>>>>>>>use it." (for example)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Stef
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Selon Hugh McGuire <
[hidden email]> <mailto:
[hidden email]> <mailto:
[hidden email]> <mailto:
[hidden email]>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>another suggestion:
>>>>>>>>>why not change the name of the organization from:
>>>>>>>>>*Citizens for Open Access to Civic Information and Data (COACID)/
>>>>>>>>>Citoyen-ne-s pour l'Accès Libre à l'Information et aux Données Civiques
>>>>>>>>>(CALIDC)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>to:
>>>>>>>>>*Civic Access/Accès citoyen (CAAC)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>
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[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>
http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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>>
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