postal code --> riding
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It seems the API I mentioned before for postal code to riding lookups may charge fees for use of their API... Which is fair enough, since they paid for it. This gave me an idea: one way of getting past the (astounding) postal code to riding $3K cost is to create a paralell data set by collecting input from users. A website could say: You are the first person from that postal code to use our site. Please use one of these services [list] to look up your riding, and enter the name below. (There would also have to be a mechanism for reporting incorrect ridings.) The resulting data set would then be owned by the website who could re-distribute it as they choose (eg. for free). Does anyone see any problems with this? Has it been tried before? Jennifer visiblegovernment.ca __________________________________________________________________ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com |
Re: postal code --> riding
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Another way is to lobby to make the public data set public.
I do not see a problem with your method, however, I would always have completeness questions. The postal code file our statistical agencies have are also associated with polygon and point data files that allow you to map demographics, elections results etc. Which is quite handy. In parallel to your tool I would love to have a way to develop dialogue with statistical agencies about making their data available to its citizenry since we have already paid for them anyway through taxation. A lobby or campaign to make these data public and a discussion about what a public data are would also help us toward meeting the goal of transparency and having an informed citizenry. Cheers t On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Jennifer Bell <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- Tracey P. Lauriault 613-234-2805 https://gcrc.carleton.ca/confluence/display/GCRCWEB/Lauriault |
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In reply to this post by Jennifer Bell
On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Jennifer Bell <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > It seems the API I mentioned before for postal code to riding lookups may charge fees for use of their API... Which is fair enough, since they paid for it. Which is why that approach is limited in the long-term (not saying it's a bad idea, especially if it raises awareness about the need for fundamental change here). > This gave me an idea: one way of getting past the (astounding) postal code to riding $3K cost is to create a paralell data set by collecting input from users. > > A website could say: You are the first person from that postal code to use our site. Please use one of these services [list] to look up your riding, and enter the name below. (There would also have to be a mechanism for reporting incorrect ridings.) The resulting data set would then be owned by the website who could re-distribute it as they choose (eg. for free). > > Does anyone see any problems with this? Has it been tried before? Problems? Yes. Postal codes that change all the damned time, and over 800k of them. There are other ways to hack around the problem - the address verification data from Canada Post is cheaper than the postal code -> EDID file. Since we have EDID polygons, we could probably hack around it (though probably fall afoul of their copyright terms for that, unless it were somehow decoupled ;) What's the status of lobbying on this issue? It is high time we took it if they haven't answered our calls. I would scrape it if someone were to use it. Daniel. PS: Is anyone else annoyed we're *still* talking about this file? |
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> PS: Is anyone else annoyed we're *still* talking about this file?
yes. |
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PS: Is anyone else annoyed we're *still* talking about this file? On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Hugh McGuire <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- Tracey P. Lauriault 613-234-2805 https://gcrc.carleton.ca/confluence/display/GCRCWEB/Lauriault |
Re: postal code --> riding
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In reply to this post by Daniel Haran
I wonder if this might be of any help?
http://www.geonames.org/ On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Daniel Haran <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- Christopher D. Ritter User Experience Designer [hidden email] Visit Critteropolis Today! critteropolis.myminicity.com |
Re: postal code --> riding
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Its a great tool but not for this purpose since our federal electoral districts (FEDs) are organized by FED name which are agglomerations of postal codes, so you find your MP/riding leader by searching the postal code or by FED if you actually know the name of your FED.
On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Christopher D. Ritter <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- Tracey P. Lauriault 613-234-2805 https://gcrc.carleton.ca/confluence/display/GCRCWEB/Lauriault |
Re: postal code --> riding
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In reply to this post by Daniel Haran
On Sat, 13 Sep 2008, Daniel Haran wrote: > What's the status of lobbying on this issue? It is high time we took > it if they haven't answered our calls. I would scrape it if someone > were to use it. Scraping doesn't solve the underlying crown copyright problem -- the resulting data would still be infringing, if you copied the SQL directly or scraped it. I'm not making any specific recommendation here, but I would tend to doubt the government would actually sue anyone over this as it would look pretty bad. I've had a sample letter on the digitalcopyright.ca site for a while now, but this isn't something any politician has taken interest in yet. The bureaucrats point at existing policy and say it is out of their hands, that they can't release it without the policy changing. If more people want to ask, that can't hurt of course. > Daniel. > > PS: Is anyone else annoyed we're *still* talking about this file? Annoyed is one word. I'm a bit embarassed that this is one of those areas where the USA was founded hundreds of years ago more foreward leaning in this area that we are today. This file is just one specifically embarassing example of crown copyright. > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss > -- Russell McOrmond, Internet Consultant: <http://www.flora.ca/> Please help us tell the Canadian Parliament to protect our property rights as owners of Information Technology. Sign the petition! http://digital-copyright.ca/petition/ict/ http://KillBillC61.ca "The government, lobbied by legacy copyright holders and hardware manufacturers, can pry control over my camcorder, computer, home theatre, or portable media player from my cold dead hands!" |
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Are there any lawyers on this list that can comment on what trouble
this could net if it landed in courts? Thanks in advance, Daniel. On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 9:13 PM, Russell McOrmond <[hidden email]> wrote: > > On Sat, 13 Sep 2008, Daniel Haran wrote: > >> What's the status of lobbying on this issue? It is high time we took >> it if they haven't answered our calls. I would scrape it if someone >> were to use it. > > Scraping doesn't solve the underlying crown copyright problem -- the > resulting data would still be infringing, if you copied the SQL directly or > scraped it. I'm not making any specific recommendation here, but I would > tend to doubt the government would actually sue anyone over this as it would > look pretty bad. > > I've had a sample letter on the digitalcopyright.ca site for a while now, > but this isn't something any politician has taken interest in yet. The > bureaucrats point at existing policy and say it is out of their hands, that > they can't release it without the policy changing. If more people want to > ask, that can't hurt of course. > >> Daniel. >> >> PS: Is anyone else annoyed we're *still* talking about this file? > > Annoyed is one word. I'm a bit embarassed that this is one of those areas > where the USA was founded hundreds of years ago more foreward leaning in > this area that we are today. This file is just one specifically embarassing > example of crown copyright. > > > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ >> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss >> > > -- > Russell McOrmond, Internet Consultant: <http://www.flora.ca/> > Please help us tell the Canadian Parliament to protect our property > rights as owners of Information Technology. Sign the petition! > http://digital-copyright.ca/petition/ict/ http://KillBillC61.ca > > "The government, lobbied by legacy copyright holders and hardware > manufacturers, can pry control over my camcorder, computer, > home theatre, or portable media player from my cold dead hands!" > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss > |
ibelieveinopen.ca: help with wording of online pledge
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In reply to this post by Tracey P. Lauriault
By the end of the week, one thing you can concretely do to show support for access to government data is sign an online pledge at ibelieveinopen.ca, a VisibleGovernment.ca project which should be going online in the next few days. Based on the US site, change-congress.org, the site will track voters and MP candidates who support different aspects of government transparency. I'm still looking for help for wording on the pledge for open access to government data, which is currently: "I support free access to scientific, electoral, and survey data gathered by government institutions." If this is an issue you care about, please take a few minutes to think whether this wording is appropriate, or what might be better. Jennifer Bell http://visiblegovernment.ca --- On Sat, 9/13/08, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote: > From: Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> > Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] postal code --> riding > To: "civicaccess discuss" <[hidden email]> > Received: Saturday, September 13, 2008, 11:01 AM > > > > PS: Is anyone else annoyed we're *still* talking > about this file? > > > totally annoyed! > > On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Hugh McGuire > <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > PS: Is anyone else annoyed we're *still* talking > about this file? > >> > > yes. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > > [hidden email] > > > http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss > > > > > > -- > Tracey P. Lauriault > 613-234-2805 > https://gcrc.carleton.ca/confluence/display/GCRCWEB/Lauriault > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss __________________________________________________________________ Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ |
Re: ibelieveinopen.ca: help with wording of online pledge
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Interesting Jennifer. An important point in your wording. at the moment there is access but it is not easy nor free as in no cost free not as in freedome free and licensing is restrictive.
The institutional response for your statement at the moment is quite easy: We already do that! Go check out the civicaccess.ca site for ideas, we spent much time together as a group coming up with a list of items and issues. (http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/whatiscivicdata, and here - http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/). while the wiki is looking a bit rough due to the many hacks the info remains good just not purdy! On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 2:47 PM, Jennifer Bell <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- Tracey P. Lauriault 613-234-2805 https://gcrc.carleton.ca/confluence/display/GCRCWEB/Lauriault |
Re: ibelieveinopen.ca: help with wording of online pledge
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In reply to this post by Jennifer Bell
I prefer the term "open access." The access isn't free, but since our
tax dollars have already paid for it Canadians deserve open access. Rob Tiessen Head, Access Services University of Calgary Library [hidden email] 403-220-6043 Jennifer Bell wrote: > By the end of the week, one thing you can concretely do to show support for access to government data is sign an online pledge at ibelieveinopen.ca, a VisibleGovernment.ca project which should be going online in the next few days. Based on the US site, change-congress.org, the site will track voters and MP candidates who support different aspects of government transparency. > > I'm still looking for help for wording on the pledge for open access to government data, which is currently: > > "I support free access to scientific, electoral, and survey data gathered by government institutions." > > If this is an issue you care about, please take a few minutes to think whether this wording is appropriate, or what might be better. > > Jennifer Bell > http://visiblegovernment.ca > > --- On Sat, 9/13/08, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote: > > >> From: Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> >> Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] postal code --> riding >> To: "civicaccess discuss" <[hidden email]> >> Received: Saturday, September 13, 2008, 11:01 AM >> >>> PS: Is anyone else annoyed we're *still* talking >>> >> about this file? >> >> >> totally annoyed! >> >> On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Hugh McGuire >> <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> >>> PS: Is anyone else annoyed we're *still* talking >>> >> about this file? >> >>> yes. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> >>> >> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss >> >> >> -- >> Tracey P. Lauriault >> 613-234-2805 >> https://gcrc.carleton.ca/confluence/display/GCRCWEB/Lauriault >> _______________________________________________ >> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss >> > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss > > > |
Re: ibelieveinopen.ca: help with wording of online pledge
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Le Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:07:00 -0600,
Robert Tiessen <[hidden email]> a écrit : > I prefer the term "open access." The access isn't free, but since our > tax dollars have already paid for it Canadians deserve open access. "Open" is very confusing too: http://commonspace.typepad.com/commonspace/2008/02/open-vs-open-vs.html > Jennifer Bell wrote: > > "I support free access to scientific, electoral, and survey data gathered by government institutions." How about "freedom of access"? -- Robin Millette http://rym.waglo.com/ |
Re: ibelieveinopen.ca: help with wording of online pledge
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This is a great idea - when ready for signing, please post so that we
can all link! As for terminology: Would it help to point to one of the definitions of open access, such as Peter Suber's Open Access Overview, the Budapest, Berlin, or Bethesda statements? Or is there a better term for open data? Peter Suber's Open Access Overview can be found here: http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/fos/overview.htm Using the term open access fits with other OA advocacy in Canada. Our research funders are all moving in an OA direction, and many people will have already heard the term. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail is that of the author alone, and does not represent the opinion or policy of BC Electronic Library Network or Simon Fraser University Library. Heather Morrison, MLIS The Imaginary Journal of Poetic Economics http://poeticeconomics.blogspot.com On 15-Sep-08, at 1:15 PM, Robin Millette wrote: > Le Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:07:00 -0600, > Robert Tiessen <[hidden email]> a écrit : > >> I prefer the term "open access." The access isn't free, but since >> our >> tax dollars have already paid for it Canadians deserve open access. > > "Open" is very confusing too: > http://commonspace.typepad.com/commonspace/2008/02/open-vs-open- > vs.html > >> Jennifer Bell wrote: > >>> "I support free access to scientific, electoral, and survey data >>> gathered by government institutions." > > How about "freedom of access"? > > -- > Robin Millette > http://rym.waglo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss |
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