opinion paper: scraped postalcode --> edid's legal

[Jennifer Bell]

I've just gotten an email from someone with a scraped (incomplete) postal code --> edid's data set.  He's had an opinion paper written by an Ottawa U legal clinic that his data set is free of any legal/copyright issues.  The data set is currently being used by a couple of non-profits.

Will post more info when I get it.  Hopefully, the person who told me this will join the list himself.

Jennifer


      __________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at
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[Daniel Haran]

Any chance they can merge back into this file? :)

http://github.com/danielharan/canadian-postal-code-to-electoral-districts/tree/master

Extracting that data from downloaded pages took far longer than
expected, and there is data missing. Sanity checks and contributions
would be welcome.

d.

On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 2:54 PM, Jennifer Bell <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I've just gotten an email from someone with a scraped (incomplete) postal code --> edid's data set.  He's had an opinion paper written by an Ottawa U legal clinic that his data set is free of any legal/copyright issues.  The data set is currently being used by a couple of non-profits.
>
> Will post more info when I get it.  Hopefully, the person who told me this will join the list himself.
>
> Jennifer
>
>
>      __________________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at
> http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
>

[Jennifer Bell]

Unfortunately, it's not 100% black and white.  Having seen the paper (dated April, 2005, wow!), the summary is basically:  'The legal status is unclear, but you're probably OK.'  The argument partly hinges on whether the scraped data set is 'original', which is admitted to be a subjective call.

However, here is a very, very intriguing quote, relevent to most here:

'Your activities appear to fall within a recognized "gap" in Canadian copyright law with respect to unoriginal compilations of data. Specialized database legislation in other jurisdictions might capture this sort of activity. In Canada, provided no other tortuous conduct (such as a trespass to chattels) accompanies your activities, such a taking is lawful.'

I would post the letter, but it's a private correspondance between the legal clinic and the sender, and I don't yet have permission.  

The legal clinic was organized by the CIPPIC group at the Ottawa U law faculty, which seems like an excellent resource for you folks who are wondering about whether copies of particular scientific data sets are legal or not.

Jennifer
 
--- On Fri, 10/10/08, Daniel Haran <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Daniel Haran <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] opinion paper: scraped postalcode --> edid's legal
> To: [hidden email], "civicaccess discuss" <[hidden email]>
> Received: Friday, October 10, 2008, 3:07 PM
> Any chance they can merge back into this file? :)
>
> http://github.com/danielharan/canadian-postal-code-to-electoral-districts/tree/master
>
> Extracting that data from downloaded pages took far longer
> than
> expected, and there is data missing. Sanity checks and
> contributions
> would be welcome.
>
> d.
>
> On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 2:54 PM, Jennifer Bell
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I've just gotten an email from someone with a
> scraped (incomplete) postal code --> edid's data set.
>  He's had an opinion paper written by an Ottawa U legal
> clinic that his data set is free of any legal/copyright
> issues.  The data set is currently being used by a couple of
> non-profits.
> >
> > Will post more info when I get it.  Hopefully, the
> person who told me this will join the list himself.
> >
> > Jennifer
> >
> >
> >    
> __________________________________________________________________
> > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the
> web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at
> > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.
> > _______________________________________________
> > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> >
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
> >

      __________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at
http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.

[Tracey P. Lauriault]

hmm!  We were provided with advice that we may be able to get the postal code file from elections canada through an ATIP request.  we were also provided with an offer of assistance by an expert in this area to review our request and provided with tips on how to follow-up.  I will probably start to work on such a request, any one wanna help?  Should we make it a CivicAccess.ca request or an individual citizens's request?

Also, Michael Geist is a member of CivicAccess and is considered as one of the founders. (see http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/founders)  CIPPIC has also provided legal advice to community wireless groups, particularly ogWiFi and assisted with the drafting of a hotspot user agreement as well as incorporation documents that have been shared with groups in canada.  I think it might be interesting for civicaccess.ca to come up with a few strategic questions we would like a legal opinion on and see if they can help us out with a response and a course of action.  CIPPIC is really busy but sometimes they have law students and interns looking for projects.

We do not live in cool montreal :( but we can do some of the boring institutional work that can prove useful to civicaccess.ca.

Ciao
t

On Tum!e, Oct 14, 2008 at 1:46 PM, Jennifer Bell <[hidden email]> wrote:

Unfortunately, it's not 100% black and white.  Having seen the paper (dated April, 2005, wow!), the summary is basically:  'The legal status is unclear, but you're probably OK.'  The argument partly hinges on whether the scraped data set is 'original', which is admitted to be a subjective call.

However, here is a very, very intriguing quote, relevent to most here:

'Your activities appear to fall within a recognized "gap" in Canadian copyright law with respect to unoriginal compilations of data. Specialized database legislation in other jurisdictions might capture this sort of activity. In Canada, provided no other tortuous conduct (such as a trespass to chattels) accompanies your activities, such a taking is lawful.'

I would post the letter, but it's a private correspondance between the legal clinic and the sender, and I don't yet have permission.

The legal clinic was organized by the CIPPIC group at the Ottawa U law faculty, which seems like an excellent resource for you folks who are wondering about whether copies of particular scientific data sets are legal or not.

Jennifer

--- On Fri, 10/10/08, Daniel Haran <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Daniel Haran <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] opinion paper: scraped postalcode --> edid's legal
> To: [hidden email], "civicaccess discuss" <[hidden email]>
> Received: Friday, October 10, 2008, 3:07 PM

> Any chance they can merge back into this file? :)
>
> http://github.com/danielharan/canadian-postal-code-to-electoral-districts/tree/master
>
> Extracting that data from downloaded pages took far longer
> than
> expected, and there is data missing. Sanity checks and
> contributions
> would be welcome.
>
> d.
>
> On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 2:54 PM, Jennifer Bell
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I've just gotten an email from someone with a
> scraped (incomplete) postal code --> edid's data set.
>  He's had an opinion paper written by an Ottawa U legal
> clinic that his data set is free of any legal/copyright
> issues.  The data set is currently being used by a couple of
> non-profits.
> >
> > Will post more info when I get it.  Hopefully, the
> person who told me this will join the list himself.
> >
> > Jennifer
> >
> >
> >
> __________________________________________________________________
> > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the
> web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at
> > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.
> > _______________________________________________
> > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> >
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
> >


     __________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at
http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.
_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

--
Tracey P. Lauriault
613-234-2805
https://gcrc.carleton.ca/confluence/display/GCRCWEB/Lauriault

[Jennifer Bell]

You must file an AtoI as either a private citizen, or as a Canadian corporation (this includes non-profit corporations).   Civic Access would need legal status before it could file an AtoI.

It would be an interesting precendent for them to release something under AtoI that a public-facing body charges for.

Jennifer

--- On Tue, 10/14/08, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] opinion paper: scraped postalcode --> edid's legal
> To: [hidden email], "civicaccess discuss" <[hidden email]>
> Received: Tuesday, October 14, 2008, 2:11 PM
> hmm!  We were provided with advice that we may be able to
> get the postal
> code file from elections canada through an ATIP request.
> we were also
> provided with an offer of assistance by an expert in this
> area to review our
> request and provided with tips on how to follow-up.  I will
> probably start
> to work on such a request, any one wanna help?  Should we
> make it a
> CivicAccess.ca request or an individual citizens's
> request?
>
> Also, Michael Geist is a member of CivicAccess and is
> considered as one of
> the founders. (see http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/founders)
> CIPPIC has also
> provided legal advice to community wireless groups,
> particularly ogWiFi and
> assisted with the drafting of a hotspot user agreement as
> well as
> incorporation documents that have been shared with groups
> in canada.  I
> think it might be interesting for civicaccess.ca to come up
> with a few
> strategic questions we would like a legal opinion on and
> see if they can
> help us out with a response and a course of action.  CIPPIC
> is really busy
> but sometimes they have law students and interns looking
> for projects.
>
> We do not live in cool montreal :( but we can do some of
> the boring
> institutional work that can prove useful to civicaccess.ca.
>
> Ciao
> t
>
> On Tum!e, Oct 14, 2008 at 1:46 PM, Jennifer Bell
> <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
> >
> > Unfortunately, it's not 100% black and white.
> Having seen the paper (dated
> > April, 2005, wow!), the summary is basically:
> 'The legal status is unclear,
> > but you're probably OK.'  The argument partly
> hinges on whether the scraped
> > data set is 'original', which is admitted to
> be a subjective call.
> >
> > However, here is a very, very intriguing quote,
> relevent to most here:
> >
> > 'Your activities appear to fall within a
> recognized "gap" in Canadian
> > copyright law with respect to unoriginal compilations
> of data. Specialized
> > database legislation in other jurisdictions might
> capture this sort of
> > activity. In Canada, provided no other tortuous
> conduct (such as a trespass
> > to chattels) accompanies your activities, such a
> taking is lawful.'
> >
> > I would post the letter, but it's a private
> correspondance between the
> > legal clinic and the sender, and I don't yet have
> permission.
> >
> > The legal clinic was organized by the CIPPIC group at
> the Ottawa U law
> > faculty, which seems like an excellent resource for
> you folks who are
> > wondering about whether copies of particular
> scientific data sets are legal
> > or not.
> >
> > Jennifer
> >
> > --- On Fri, 10/10/08, Daniel Haran
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Daniel Haran <[hidden email]>
> > > Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] opinion paper:
> scraped postalcode -->
> > edid's legal
> > > To: [hidden email], "civicaccess
> discuss" <
> > [hidden email]>
> > > Received: Friday, October 10, 2008, 3:07 PM
> > > Any chance they can merge back into this file? :)
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://github.com/danielharan/canadian-postal-code-to-electoral-districts/tree/master
> > >
> > > Extracting that data from downloaded pages took
> far longer
> > > than
> > > expected, and there is data missing. Sanity
> checks and
> > > contributions
> > > would be welcome.
> > >
> > > d.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 2:54 PM, Jennifer Bell
> > > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I've just gotten an email from someone
> with a
> > > scraped (incomplete) postal code -->
> edid's data set.
> > >  He's had an opinion paper written by an
> Ottawa U legal
> > > clinic that his data set is free of any
> legal/copyright
> > > issues.  The data set is currently being used by
> a couple of
> > > non-profits.
> > > >
> > > > Will post more info when I get it.
> Hopefully, the
> > > person who told me this will join the list
> himself.
> > > >
> > > > Jennifer
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> __________________________________________________________________
> > > > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere
> on the
> > > web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download
> it now at
> > > > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.
> > > >
> _______________________________________________
> > > > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > >
> > >
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
> > > >
> >
> >
> >    
> __________________________________________________________________
> > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the
> web, and bookmark your
> > favourite sites. Download it now at
> > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.
> > _______________________________________________
> > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> >
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Tracey P. Lauriault
> 613-234-2805
> https://gcrc.carleton.ca/confluence/display/GCRCWEB/Lauriault

      __________________________________________________________________
Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail.  Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca

[Tracey P. Lauriault]

what does atol stand for?

On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 2:19 PM, Jennifer Bell <[hidden email]> wrote:

You must file an AtoI as either a private citizen, or as a Canadian corporation (this includes non-profit corporations).   Civic Access would need legal status before it could file an AtoI.

It wwhaould be an interesting precendent for them to release something under AtoI that a public-facing body charges for.

Jennifer

--- On Tue, 10/14/08, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]>

> Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] opinion paper: scraped postalcode --> edid's legal
> To: [hidden email], "civicaccess discuss" <[hidden email]>

> Received: Tuesday, October 14, 2008, 2:11 PM

> hmm!  We were provided with advice that we may be able to
> get the postal
> code file from elections canada through an ATIP request.
> we were also
> provided with an offer of assistance by an expert in this
> area to review our
> request and provided with tips on how to follow-up.  I will
> probably start
> to work on such a request, any one wanna help?  Should we
> make it a
> CivicAccess.ca request or an individual citizens's
> request?
>
> Also, Michael Geist is a member of CivicAccess and is
> considered as one of
> the founders. (see http://civicaccess.ca/wiki/founders)
> CIPPIC has also
> provided legal advice to community wireless groups,
> particularly ogWiFi and
> assisted with the drafting of a hotspot user agreement as
> well as
> incorporation documents that have been shared with groups
> in canada.  I
> think it might be interesting for civicaccess.ca to come up
> with a few
> strategic questions we would like a legal opinion on and
> see if they can
> help us out with a response and a course of action.  CIPPIC
> is really busy
> but sometimes they have law students and interns looking
> for projects.
>
> We do not live in cool montreal :( but we can do some of
> the boring
> institutional work that can prove useful to civicaccess.ca.
>
> Ciao
> t
>
> On Tum!e, Oct 14, 2008 at 1:46 PM, Jennifer Bell
> <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
> >
> > Unfortunately, it's not 100% black and white.
> Having seen the paper (dated
> > April, 2005, wow!), the summary is basically:
> 'The legal status is unclear,
> > but you're probably OK.'  The argument partly
> hinges on whether the scraped
> > data set is 'original', which is admitted to
> be a subjective call.
> >
> > However, here is a very, very intriguing quote,
> relevent to most here:
> >
> > 'Your activities appear to fall within a
> recognized "gap" in Canadian
> > copyright law with respect to unoriginal compilations
> of data. Specialized
> > database legislation in other jurisdictions might
> capture this sort of
> > activity. In Canada, provided no other tortuous
> conduct (such as a trespass
> > to chattels) accompanies your activities, such a
> taking is lawful.'
> >
> > I would post the letter, but it's a private
> correspondance between the
> > legal clinic and the sender, and I don't yet have
> permission.
> >
> > The legal clinic was organized by the CIPPIC group at
> the Ottawa U law
> > faculty, which seems like an excellent resource for
> you folks who are
> > wondering about whether copies of particular
> scientific data sets are legal
> > or not.
> >
> > Jennifer
> >
> > --- On Fri, 10/10/08, Daniel Haran
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Daniel Haran <[hidden email]>
> > > Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] opinion paper:
> scraped postalcode -->
> > edid's legal
> > > To: [hidden email], "civicaccess
> discuss" <
> > [hidden email]>
> > > Received: Friday, October 10, 2008, 3:07 PM
> > > Any chance they can merge back into this file? :)
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://github.com/danielharan/canadian-postal-code-to-electoral-districts/tree/master
> > >
> > > Extracting that data from downloaded pages took
> far longer
> > > than
> > > expected, and there is data missing. Sanity
> checks and
> > > contributions
> > > would be welcome.
> > >
> > > d.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 2:54 PM, Jennifer Bell
> > > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I've just gotten an email from someone
> with a
> > > scraped (incomplete) postal code -->
> edid's data set.
> > >  He's had an opinion paper written by an
> Ottawa U legal
> > > clinic that his data set is free of any
> legal/copyright
> > > issues.  The data set is currently being used by
> a couple of
> > > non-profits.
> > > >
> > > > Will post more info when I get it.
> Hopefully, the
> > > person who told me this will join the list
> himself.
> > > >
> > > > Jennifer
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> __________________________________________________________________
> > > > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere
> on the
> > > web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download
> it now at
> > > > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.
> > > >
> _______________________________________________
> > > > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > >
> > >
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> __________________________________________________________________
> > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the
> web, and bookmark your
> > favourite sites. Download it now at
> > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.
> > _______________________________________________
> > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> >
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Tracey P. Lauriault
> 613-234-2805
> https://gcrc.carleton.ca/confluence/display/GCRCWEB/Lauriault

     __________________________________________________________________
Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail.  Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

--
Tracey P. Lauriault
613-234-2805
https://gcrc.carleton.ca/confluence/display/GCRCWEB/Lauriault

[Denver Gingerich]

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On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 2:22 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault  wrote:
> what does atol stand for?

Presumably "Access to Information" or AtoI, similar to your ATIP
acronym.  Note that the last character is a capital 'i', not a lower
case 'L'.

Denver
http://ossguy.com/


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