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Just last week I was told that the PCCF - basically the centroid points for 6 digit postal codes - is still $10k for a first order for a non-redistributable license for up to 3 users, or something like that. Basic geographic information should be a priority.
I'm a little more willing to cut StatsCan some slack on not releasing some socio-economic data down to the smallest level of geography, because that makes it pretty easy to disaggregate and figure things out about individuals.
Joe Murray, PhD President, JMA Consulting [hidden email]skype JosephPMurray twitter JoeMurray 416.466.1281
On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 9:09 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Statscan to make "standard online products" free (Michael Mulley)
2. Re: Statscan to make "standard online products" free
(Tracey P. Lauriault)
3. Re: Statscan to make "standard online products" free (David Eaves)
4. Re: Statscan to make "standard online products" free
(Ted Hildebrandt)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 23:18:06 -0500
From: Michael Mulley <[hidden email]>
To: civicaccess discuss <[hidden email]>
Subject: [CivicAccess-discuss] Statscan to make "standard online
products" free
Message-ID:
<CANjh2wDqfLvcP3bLw+BdcT5b7+E=FzRWuV6cdrMOzao=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Via Embassy Magazine (and David Eaves):
http://embassymag.ca/dailyupdate/view/statistics_canada_to_make_all_online_data_free_11-24-2011
The scope of this seems to cover all the Statscan products I've wanted
to use in the past, which is fantastic, but I'm not a researcher. Hey
researchers -- Tracey? --, how much of the data you use is covered
under "standard products readily available on its website?including
CANSIM data, census data and geography products"?
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 23:39:18 -0500
From: "Tracey P. Lauriault" <[hidden email]>
To: civicaccess discuss <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Statscan to make "standard online
products" free
Message-ID:
<[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Hey Michael;
Good one! The article does not provide enough detail.
Firstly, CMA data have been available over the net as has census division
data and census subdivision data for community profiles and many but
certainly not all census variables. But these have been unrully to work
with as one could not for instance download spreasheets of all the CMAs or
CDs or CSD and instead got to search 1 by one if you actually knew what you
were looking for. In short, it will be important to see how they will make
these data free.
Secondly, and back to geography and aggregation, the data I work with are
at smaller geographies, such as census tracts, and dissemination areas.
And this is where things get really tricky, these were never free, and
because of the sampling of the national household survey, we predit that
data at these smaller geographies will be unreliable. Maybe that is why
they will be free if they will be!
Thirdly, many communities want their data organized into geographies they
recognize, in Montreal it would be borroghs, in Ottawa and other cities it
is neighoubhourhoods or wards, for some sectors such as health it is
districts, and for others it is planning areas or economic zones. All of
these geographies are special orders and will most likely not be free. The
geographies for these are quite stable, but StatCan does not consider these
as standard products. Getting access to these geographies is crazy
expensive and takes much time. Also, what happens here, is, when a city or
a health region order these and pay for them, they are unlikely to re-share
them. The former licence government StatCan data was regressive indeed,
and perhaps this new license will be more generous on this front and it
will be up to us to ensure that our cities, health departments and
provinces and territories share back with us, the public. etc
The devil is always in the detail, and I will check out the status with
some of my contacts and keep you posted with what I hear.
This is however a good step, and the Court Submission to the Federal Court
Yesterday was quite stront, arguing that "all have an equal right to be
counted" "asking why some charter groups are counted and not others" and
stating that this 2011 census as a institution and legislated instrument of
government "is the least inclusive census in the history of Canada" at a
time where knowing diversity is more essential than ever.
G'night
t
On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Michael Mulley
<[hidden email]>wrote:
> Via Embassy Magazine (and David Eaves):
>
> http://embassymag.ca/dailyupdate/view/statistics_canada_to_make_all_online_data_free_11-24-2011
>
> The scope of this seems to cover all the Statscan products I've wanted
> to use in the past, which is fantastic, but I'm not a researcher. Hey
> researchers -- Tracey? --, how much of the data you use is covered
> under "standard products readily available on its website?including
> CANSIM data, census data and geography products"?
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 22:19:35 -0800
From: David Eaves <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Statscan to make "standard online
products" free
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
This is a great breakdown Tracey. I suspect they won't be releasing data
by recognizable geographies - but it would be the next logical thing to
ask for. What is interesting is finding out what license a custom order
will be released under - that is definitely worth exploring. Really
worth exploring.
I know that there is a commitment outside of StatsCan to making all the
data free at StatsCan now, this has been in the works for a while... so
now is a good time to push the demands you make here, as there is a good
audience at the moment for them.
Dave
On 11-11-24 8:39 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault wrote:
> Hey Michael;
> Good one! The article does not provide enough detail.
> Firstly, CMA data have been available over the net as has census
> division data and census subdivision data for community profiles and
> many but certainly not all census variables. But these have been
> unrully to work with as one could not for instance download
> spreasheets of all the CMAs or CDs or CSD and instead got to search 1
> by one if you actually knew what you were looking for. In short, it
> will be important to see how they will make these data free.
> Secondly, and back to geography and aggregation, the data I work with
> are at smaller geographies, such as census tracts, and dissemination
> areas. And this is where things get really tricky, these were never
> free, and because of the sampling of the national household survey, we
> predit that data at these smaller geographies will be unreliable.
> Maybe that is why they will be free if they will be!
> Thirdly, many communities want their data organized into geographies
> they recognize, in Montreal it would be borroghs, in Ottawa and other
> cities it is neighoubhourhoods or wards, for some sectors such as
> health it is districts, and for others it is planning areas or
> economic zones. All of these geographies are special orders and will
> most likely not be free. The geographies for these are quite stable,
> but StatCan does not consider these as standard products. Getting
> access to these geographies is crazy expensive and takes much time.
> Also, what happens here, is, when a city or a health region order
> these and pay for them, they are unlikely to re-share them. The
> former licence government StatCan data was regressive indeed, and
> perhaps this new license will be more generous on this front and it
> will be up to us to ensure that our cities, health departments and
> provinces and territories share back with us, the public. etc
> The devil is always in the detail, and I will check out the status
> with some of my contacts and keep you posted with what I hear.
> This is however a good step, and the Court Submission to the Federal
> Court Yesterday was quite stront, arguing that "all have an equal
> right to be counted" "asking why some charter groups are counted and
> not others" and stating that this 2011 census as a institution and
> legislated instrument of government "is the least inclusive census in
> the history of Canada" at a time where knowing diversity is more
> essential than ever.
> G'night
> t
>
> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Michael Mulley
> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
> Via Embassy Magazine (and David Eaves):
> http://embassymag.ca/dailyupdate/view/statistics_canada_to_make_all_online_data_free_11-24-2011
>
> The scope of this seems to cover all the Statscan products I've wanted
> to use in the past, which is fantastic, but I'm not a researcher. Hey
> researchers -- Tracey? --, how much of the data you use is covered
> under "standard products readily available on its website---including
> CANSIM data, census data and geography products"?
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:08:51 +0000
From: Ted Hildebrandt <[hidden email]>
To: civicaccess discuss <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Statscan to make "standard online
products" free
Message-ID:
<[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I concur with many of Tracey's thoughts. As someone who uses StatsCan data with community groups on a regular basis, this looks like good news, but as Tracey said, the devil is in the details. The issues of exactly what data will be free, what level of geography will they be available at and in what formats will they be disseminated are all still to be answered. Nice to have free data, but if it is a pain to get at and really be useful, it becomes a bit of frustrating excerise.
Tracey pointed out a very good point about custom geographies. I just spent that last two days holding data workshops in several communities here and the issue of data available in non-standard geographies came up. While we have some data by a few of the kinds of custom geographies in our community through the Community Data Program, it still can be a long and expensive process. Of course, now it looks like the part of my presentation that focused on the difficulty on accessing StatsCan data and all the issues surrounding that will now have to be revised! Good thing I had those workshops before this article came out.
I am looking forward to seeing/hearing more details on what this all entails.
---------------------------------------
Ted Hildebrandt
Director of Social Planning
Community Development Halton
860 Harrington Court
Burlington, Ontario L7N 3N4 Canada
Phone: <a href="tel:%28905%29%20632-1975" value="+19056321975">(905) 632-1975, <a href="tel:%28905%29%20878-0955" value="+19058780955">(905) 878-0955
Fax: <a href="tel:%28905%29%20632-0778" value="+19056320778">(905) 632-0778
Email: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
Web: www.cdhalton.ca<http://www.cdhalton.ca/>
www.volunteerhalton.ca<http://www.volunteerhalton.ca/>
Building Community Together
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Eaves
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 1:20 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Statscan to make "standard online products" free
This is a great breakdown Tracey. I suspect they won't be releasing data by recognizable geographies - but it would be the next logical thing to ask for. What is interesting is finding out what license a custom order will be released under - that is definitely worth exploring. Really worth exploring.
I know that there is a commitment outside of StatsCan to making all the data free at StatsCan now, this has been in the works for a while... so now is a good time to push the demands you make here, as there is a good audience at the moment for them.
Dave
On 11-11-24 8:39 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault wrote:
Hey Michael;
Good one! The article does not provide enough detail.
Firstly, CMA data have been available over the net as has census division data and census subdivision data for community profiles and many but certainly not all census variables. But these have been unrully to work with as one could not for instance download spreasheets of all the CMAs or CDs or CSD and instead got to search 1 by one if you actually knew what you were looking for. In short, it will be important to see how they will make these data free.
Secondly, and back to geography and aggregation, the data I work with are at smaller geographies, such as census tracts, and dissemination areas. And this is where things get really tricky, these were never free, and because of the sampling of the national household survey, we predit that data at these smaller geographies will be unreliable. Maybe that is why they will be free if they will be!
Thirdly, many communities want their data organized into geographies they recognize, in Montreal it would be borroghs, in Ottawa and other cities it is neighoubhourhoods or wards, for some sectors such as health it is districts, and for others it is planning areas or economic zones. All of these geographies are special orders and will most likely not be free. The geographies for these are quite stable, but StatCan does not consider these as standard products. Getting access to these geographies is crazy expensive and takes much time. Also, what happens here, is, when a city or a health region order these and pay for them, they are unlikely to re-share them. The former licence government StatCan data was regressive indeed, and perhaps this new license will be more generous on this front and it will be up to us to ensure that our cities, health departments and provinces and territories share back with us, the public. etc
The devil is always in the detail, and I will check out the status with some of my contacts and keep you posted with what I hear.
This is however a good step, and the Court Submission to the Federal Court Yesterday was quite stront, arguing that "all have an equal right to be counted" "asking why some charter groups are counted and not others" and stating that this 2011 census as a institution and legislated instrument of government "is the least inclusive census in the history of Canada" at a time where knowing diversity is more essential than ever.
G'night
t
On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Michael Mulley <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
Via Embassy Magazine (and David Eaves):
http://embassymag.ca/dailyupdate/view/statistics_canada_to_make_all_online_data_free_11-24-2011
The scope of this seems to cover all the Statscan products I've wanted
to use in the past, which is fantastic, but I'm not a researcher. Hey
researchers -- Tracey? --, how much of the data you use is covered
under "standard products readily available on its website-including
CANSIM data, census data and geography products"?
_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
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