conservatives world wide are cancelling censuses!
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conservatives world wide are cancelling censuses!
 
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are these dudes all hangin' with each other or what? http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/abbott-government-considers-axing-the-australian-census-to-save-money-20150219-13ieik.html -- _______________________________________________ CivicAccess-discuss mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss |
Re: conservatives world wide are cancelling censuses!
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The short answer to that is yes. There are several conservative "think tanks" and gatherings that advocate this move. If it feels coordinated (that word might be too strong), it's because it is. -- @daeaves Sent from my iPhone
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Re: conservatives world wide are cancelling censuses!
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Tks David, Can you point to a place where there is a discussion/critique on censuses from a “conservative” perspective? M From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Eaves The short answer to that is yes. There are several conservative "think tanks" and gatherings that advocate this move. If it feels coordinated (that word might be too strong), it's because it is. -- @daeaves Sent from my iPhone
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Re: conservatives world wide are cancelling censuses!
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Michael; A good place to start is to listen to the video that accompanies the article I sent. Cheers Tracey On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 6:49 PM, Michael Gurstein <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: conservatives world wide are cancelling censuses!
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In reply to this post by David Eaves
Thanks David. This is disconcerting, but I guess expected, politicians and their advisers spend time with like minded people, just with a bit more clout than some of us have. On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 6:20 PM, David Eaves <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: conservatives world wide are cancelling censuses!
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In reply to this post by Tracey P. Lauriault
Yes, the arguments there are slightly more elaborate than the ridiculous stuff that was peddled here in Canada but I’m still interested in hearing what the Cons have against the census… M From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tracey P. Lauriault Michael; A good place to start is to listen to the video that accompanies the article I sent. Cheers Tracey On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 6:49 PM, Michael Gurstein <[hidden email]> wrote:
Tracey P. Lauriault http://www.maynoothuniversity.ie/progcity/contributors/tracey-p-lauriault/ http://datalibre.ca/ _______________________________________________ CivicAccess-discuss mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss |
Re: conservatives world wide are cancelling censuses!
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same here, Michael, would be good to know the circles where these things are discussed as part of an agenda. On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 7:30 PM, Michael Gurstein <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: conservatives world wide are cancelling censuses!
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In reply to this post by michael gurstein
From memory one basic idea is we (the government) have a lot of interaction with the population. So driving licence data is fairly current and that covers a lot of people, renewal every five years seems common. We have tax return data, etc etc. Just data mine it and you get a surprising amount of data and with the new anti-terrorist legislation there is less objection to combining data on privacy grounds. Even in Canada some government data bases are combined for a specific application, this was actually approved by the privacy commissionaire. Is it any less accurate than the census? Well to a conservative government does it matter? If there is no data then you can make decisions, currently they don't rely on civil servants to research etc anyway or certainly to the extent that we saw in the past. The census in any case is three years or so out of date on average anyway so from a data quality point of view it isn't quite as nice as we'd like it to be. Give me access to the provincial and municipal data bases as well as the federal ones including the tax data bases and I think the accuracy would be better. Having worked at Stats on the census I once asked one of my staff who was unmarried had he filled his census form in yet? "No, they aren't interested in me." was the reply and they worked on the census so what hope for the rest of the country and its the ones who don't answer you're most interested in. Cheerio John On 28 February 2015 at 13:49, Michael Gurstein <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: conservatives world wide are cancelling censuses!
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I must say that in the midst of the census discussion I was somewhat surprised that there wasn’t any evident attempt by the pro-census folks (of which I am one) to do a radical re-think of census information type gathering as you are hinting at below. The problem of course was the way in which the Tories acted which was that it was their way or the highway rather than what would have been broadly useful and globally significant (particularly given Canada’s (former) very high global reputation in those areas) i.e. a major rethink of census type information use and appropriate ways in which that information could be derived of which the traditional census is of course only one. M From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of john whelan From memory one basic idea is we (the government) have a lot of interaction with the population. So driving licence data is fairly current and that covers a lot of people, renewal every five years seems common. We have tax return data, etc etc. Just data mine it and you get a surprising amount of data and with the new anti-terrorist legislation there is less objection to combining data on privacy grounds. Even in Canada some government data bases are combined for a specific application, this was actually approved by the privacy commissionaire. Is it any less accurate than the census? Well to a conservative government does it matter? If there is no data then you can make decisions, currently they don't rely on civil servants to research etc anyway or certainly to the extent that we saw in the past. The census in any case is three years or so out of date on average anyway so from a data quality point of view it isn't quite as nice as we'd like it to be. Give me access to the provincial and municipal data bases as well as the federal ones including the tax data bases and I think the accuracy would be better. Having worked at Stats on the census I once asked one of my staff who was unmarried had he filled his census form in yet? "No, they aren't interested in me." was the reply and they worked on the census so what hope for the rest of the country and its the ones who don't answer you're most interested in. Cheerio John On 28 February 2015 at 13:49, Michael Gurstein <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: conservatives world wide are cancelling censuses!
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In reply to this post by john whelan
Yes John there are issues, but we are in quite a pickle in Canada at the moment, as we spent a ton on a survey that is considered to be of very low quality and no information on small areas. That is troublesome indeed. I see your point on the complementarity of other datasets, but we do not have such a system at play in Canada, unlike the Scandinavians, that is an old infrastructure of registries. Ours took a different path. But we know that data on the filling out of the census and the filling out of the long-form survey are not aligned with your anecdotes of a time gone by with your colleague. Cheers t On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 7:44 PM, john whelan <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: conservatives world wide are cancelling censuses!
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In reply to this post by michael gurstein
There was Michael, but there is a requirement for massive institutional re-alignement. There was much discussion about other models, and as just discussed, those other models have their own technological and social/political momentum that are quite old, centuries some of them, as was the census in Canada, and one does not change a massive infrastructure like a census, just by cancelling it, it takes more than a 5 year cycle to change that. We would also have to change legislation. None of that was however on the table when the census was cancelled. Cheers t On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 7:58 PM, Michael Gurstein <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: conservatives world wide are cancelling censuses!
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Yes, I understand. M From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tracey P. Lauriault There was Michael, but there is a requirement for massive institutional re-alignement. There was much discussion about other models, and as just discussed, those other models have their own technological and social/political momentum that are quite old, centuries some of them, as was the census in Canada, and one does not change a massive infrastructure like a census, just by cancelling it, it takes more than a 5 year cycle to change that. We would also have to change legislation. None of that was however on the table when the census was cancelled. Cheers t On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 7:58 PM, Michael Gurstein <[hidden email]> wrote:
Tracey P. Lauriault http://www.maynoothuniversity.ie/progcity/contributors/tracey-p-lauriault/ http://datalibre.ca/ _______________________________________________ CivicAccess-discuss mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss |
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