capitol words
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more cool stuff from sunlight foundation:
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On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 12:21 PM, Hugh McGuire <[hidden email]> wrote:
> more cool stuff from sunlight foundation: > http://www.capitolwords.org/about/ > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss |
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Hey Hugh!
Shall we have this up as an example on the datalibre site? we can load up the widget i think? t On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 12:34 PM, Michael Lenczner <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- Tracey P. Lauriault Geomatics and Cartographic Research Centre Dept. of Geography and Environmental Studies Carleton University Ottawa (ON) Canada [hidden email] 613-234-2805 https://gcrc.carleton.ca/confluence/display/GCRCWEB/Lauriault |
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Hello all,
I've been thinking the last while about the best approach for promoting the creation of online tools for government transparency. The Sunlight Foundation in the US and mySociety in the UK are showing that the government can be changed by example, from the outside. It just takes people to push to make it happen. What will it take to get a similar movement going here in Canada? As I know there are several people here with experience in similar groups, I'd like to get your opinions. The ingredients, as I see them, are: 1) Money. The Sunlight Foundation initially had a single large donor, who put up a seed of 3.5M. 2) A Community. barcamps are a great example of people coming together to learn and share. E-gov sessions can be tagged on to existing barcamps, and dedicated events held once there's some interest. Possibly, these could be supplemented with invitation-only events for a more 'elite' crowd of government and high-tech representatives. 3) A Tool. There ought to be a website to formally capture ideas for tools and allow them to be developed by the community. There's a rough plan for one here, which I'd like feedback on: http://groups.google.com/group/visiblegovernment-discuss/browse_thread/thread/9b0211b0b51965df?hl=en .... I would appreciate any input. At a recent conference, the moderator started out by saying 'I believe in the wisdom of crowds, and I believe we have a very wise crowd here today'. Jennifer visiblegovernment.ca __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. |
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In reply to this post by Tracey P. Lauriault
heh. nice one. yes, i will try to fix this week.
h. On Jul 7, 2008, at 1:38 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault wrote: Hey Hugh! |
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In reply to this post by Hugh McGuire-2
On 7-Jul-08, at 9:21 AM, Hugh McGuire wrote:
> more cool stuff from sunlight foundation: > http://www.capitolwords.org/about/ A nice toy... but honestly, it's pretty much useless, no? |
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In reply to this post by Jennifer Bell
A while back there was brief discussion about CivicAccess becoming an
umbrella foundation/non-profit to conglomerate the various Canadian access-related projects. I see a real need/use for this, as i'm sure each little project has little interest in all the paperwork involved to achieve non-profit status, when all they want is a little financial support; sticking a little "a CivicAccess project" logo in the corner is a lot more appealing. To contrast the two examples given by Jennifer, I guess I see mySociety as a handful of people who built tools who then built a non- profit around it, versus Sunlight as a group with a bucket of money who then built tools. CivicAccess and VisibleGovernment seem to be taking the similar approaches, respectively. My question is, are CivicAccess and VisibleGovernment competing, or should we try to, for example, make CivicAccess the umbrella/ community, and VisibleGovernment the fundraising wing? Is there is a difference that i'm not seeing here, besides branding? (or is having 2 entities too confusing?) Thanks, Cory. On 7-Jul-08, at 1:11 PM, Jennifer Bell wrote: > I've been thinking the last while about the best approach for > promoting the creation of online tools for government > transparency. The Sunlight Foundation in the US and mySociety in > the UK are showing that the government can be changed by example, > from the outside. It just takes people to push to make it happen. > > What will it take to get a similar movement going here in Canada? > As I know there are several people here with experience in similar > groups, I'd like to get your opinions. > > The ingredients, as I see them, are: > > 1) Money. > 2) A Community. > 3) A Tool. |
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I met with Micheal Lenczner at a coffee shop in April, and was told that CivicAccess was a community of interest, with no specific plans for the future.
There's nothing wrong with maintaining a separate 'community of interest'... my impression was that CivicAccess seems to have a broader focus than visiblegovernment, with more interest in scientific data. Jennifer --- On Tue, 7/8/08, Cory Horner <[hidden email]> wrote: > From: Cory Horner <[hidden email]> > Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Getting Tools Built > To: "civicaccess discuss" <[hidden email]> > Received: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 2:38 AM > A while back there was brief discussion about CivicAccess > becoming an > umbrella foundation/non-profit to conglomerate the various > Canadian > access-related projects. I see a real need/use for this, > as i'm sure > each little project has little interest in all the > paperwork involved > to achieve non-profit status, when all they want is a > little > financial support; sticking a little "a CivicAccess > project" logo in > the corner is a lot more appealing. > > To contrast the two examples given by Jennifer, I guess I > see > mySociety as a handful of people who built tools who then > built a non- > profit around it, versus Sunlight as a group with a bucket > of money > who then built tools. CivicAccess and VisibleGovernment > seem to be > taking the similar approaches, respectively. > > My question is, are CivicAccess and VisibleGovernment > competing, or > should we try to, for example, make CivicAccess the > umbrella/ > community, and VisibleGovernment the fundraising wing? Is > there is a > difference that i'm not seeing here, besides branding? > (or is having > 2 entities too confusing?) > > Thanks, > Cory. > > On 7-Jul-08, at 1:11 PM, Jennifer Bell wrote: > > > I've been thinking the last while about the best > approach for > > promoting the creation of online tools for government > > > transparency. The Sunlight Foundation in the US and > mySociety in > > the UK are showing that the government can be changed > by example, > > from the outside. It just takes people to push to > make it happen. > > > > What will it take to get a similar movement going here > in Canada? > > As I know there are several people here with > experience in similar > > groups, I'd like to get your opinions. > > > > The ingredients, as I see them, are: > > > > 1) Money. > > 2) A Community. > > 3) A Tool. > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ |
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In reply to this post by Cory Horner
Thus far civicaccess has been mostly an email list, and a wiki outlining a idea/vision for data & the govt, pointing to various projects and things of interest (probably a bit of spam too). I see it as a useful gathering place, that *might* evolve into something later - but after X months (years?) it has remained mostly an occasional information swapping ground, and nothing more.
Visiblegovernment is, if i understand jennifer correctly, planning to build actual tools (a la opencongress etc) ... which is something some of us on the list have worked on in the past to varying degrees of success - but certainly we need more of it in canada, from this group and from others. i think civicaccess should continue on as an info exchange, and do what we can to promote our objectives, which are: 1. To encourage all levels of governments (county/municipal, provincial, federal) to make civic data and information available to citizens without restrictions, at no cost, and in useable open formats. 2. To encourage the development of citizen projects using civic data and information So i'd see visiblegovernment as a specific project that civicaccess enthusiastically encourages (to the extent that visiblegovernment does objective #2) ... and civicaccess as a broader group that cheers on & supports visiblegovernment and any number of other interesting projects that come along. The more of us actually doing things the better, I think. ... speaking of which, I have a datalibre.ca blog to fix. sigh. Hugh. On Jul 8, 2008, at 2:38 AM, Cory Horner wrote:
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On 8-Jul-08, at 6:18 AM, Hugh McGuire wrote:
> Thus far civicaccess has been mostly an email list, and a wiki > outlining a idea/vision for data & the govt, pointing to various > projects and things of interest (probably a bit of spam too). I see > it as a useful gathering place, that *might* evolve into something > later - but after X months (years?) it has remained mostly an > occasional information swapping ground, and nothing more. > > ...our objectives, which are: > > 1. To encourage all levels of governments (county/municipal, > provincial, federal) to make civic data and information available > to citizens without restrictions, at no cost, and in useable open > formats. > 2. To encourage the development of citizen projects using civic > data and information > > So i'd see visiblegovernment as a specific project that civicaccess > enthusiastically encourages (to the extent that visiblegovernment > does objective #2) ... and civicaccess as a broader group that > cheers on & supports visiblegovernment and any number of other > interesting projects that come along. Fair enough -- there can be two. As to our objectives however, i'd have to say we've failed so far. We've encouraged, informed a little, and served as a placard to point to during a few talks, but I can't point at an achievement and say "CivicAccess" made this possible -- and i'd really *like* to. Perhaps a little structure is warranted, in order to drive the rather significant community that has formed into action. Personally, i'd like to see the following happen: - movement on CitySondage - start a census petition and send it off to Parliament - discussion on non-profit status (and gathering of resources to fuel initiatives) Maybe we should start a monthly IRC chat to stir things up a little and get some more interaction happening... Cheers, Cory. |
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>
> Personally, i'd like to see the following happen: > - movement on CitySondage > - start a census petition and send it off to Parliament I agree. > - discussion on non-profit status (and gathering of resources to > fuel initiatives) i agree in principle ...it takes time, energy and commitment from specific people, however... [aka, not me!] > > Maybe we should start a monthly IRC chat to stir things up a little > and get some more interaction happening... I don't do IRC very often but somewhere have a client on my machine, so could I do... |
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In reply to this post by Jennifer Bell
On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 8:55 AM, Jennifer Bell <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I met with Micheal Lenczner at a coffee shop in April, and was told that CivicAccess was a community of interest, with no specific plans for the future. > I'm sorry for the miscommunication Jen. What I meant to say that it was my impression that CivicAccess had no immediate plans for any legal shape. I just think it's very important that people know what they are getting into - especially around areas of governance. I'm sure that there are projects or campaigns that can be done with/by Civicaccess, but I just didn't / don't see a CivicAccess office happening anytime soon, or even a board. It could happen, but someone would have to propose something clear. Also, I do believe that a neutral place of discussion and support is important for a movement like this. > There's nothing wrong with maintaining a separate 'community of interest'... my impression was that CivicAccess seems to have a broader focus than visiblegovernment, with more interest in scientific data. > Well, Tracey does love scientific data. ;-) And yeah - we had early discussions about having access to government datasets, not just what we would think of as "info" in terms of freedom of information requests. > Jennifer > > --- On Tue, 7/8/08, Cory Horner <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> From: Cory Horner <[hidden email]> >> Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Getting Tools Built >> To: "civicaccess discuss" <[hidden email]> >> Received: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 2:38 AM >> A while back there was brief discussion about CivicAccess >> becoming an >> umbrella foundation/non-profit to conglomerate the various >> Canadian >> access-related projects. I see a real need/use for this, >> as i'm sure >> each little project has little interest in all the >> paperwork involved >> to achieve non-profit status, when all they want is a >> little >> financial support; sticking a little "a CivicAccess >> project" logo in >> the corner is a lot more appealing. >> >> To contrast the two examples given by Jennifer, I guess I >> see >> mySociety as a handful of people who built tools who then >> built a non- >> profit around it, versus Sunlight as a group with a bucket >> of money >> who then built tools. CivicAccess and VisibleGovernment >> seem to be >> taking the similar approaches, respectively. >> >> My question is, are CivicAccess and VisibleGovernment >> competing, or >> should we try to, for example, make CivicAccess the >> umbrella/ >> community, and VisibleGovernment the fundraising wing? Is >> there is a >> difference that i'm not seeing here, besides branding? >> (or is having >> 2 entities too confusing?) >> >> Thanks, >> Cory. >> >> On 7-Jul-08, at 1:11 PM, Jennifer Bell wrote: >> >> > I've been thinking the last while about the best >> approach for >> > promoting the creation of online tools for government >> >> > transparency. The Sunlight Foundation in the US and >> mySociety in >> > the UK are showing that the government can be changed >> by example, >> > from the outside. It just takes people to push to >> make it happen. >> > >> > What will it take to get a similar movement going here >> in Canada? >> > As I know there are several people here with >> experience in similar >> > groups, I'd like to get your opinions. >> > >> > The ingredients, as I see them, are: >> > >> > 1) Money. >> > 2) A Community. >> > 3) A Tool. >> _______________________________________________ >> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! > > http://www.flickr.com/gift/ > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss > |
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yes! all government data sets - environment canada, natural resources
canada, health canada, ... I want it all opened up (subject to reasonable privacy constraints, of course). On Jul 8, 2008, at 11:42 AM, Michael Lenczner wrote: > On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 8:55 AM, Jennifer Bell > <[hidden email]> wrote: >> I met with Micheal Lenczner at a coffee shop in April, and was >> told that CivicAccess was a community of interest, with no >> specific plans for the future. >> > > I'm sorry for the miscommunication Jen. What I meant to say that it > was my impression that CivicAccess had no immediate plans for any > legal shape. I just think it's very important that people know what > they are getting into - especially around areas of governance. I'm > sure that there are projects or campaigns that can be done with/by > Civicaccess, but I just didn't / don't see a CivicAccess office > happening anytime soon, or even a board. It could happen, but someone > would have to propose something clear. Also, I do believe that a > neutral place of discussion and support is important for a movement > like this. > >> There's nothing wrong with maintaining a separate 'community of >> interest'... my impression was that CivicAccess seems to have a >> broader focus than visiblegovernment, with more interest in >> scientific data. >> > > Well, Tracey does love scientific data. ;-) And yeah - we had early > discussions about having access to government datasets, not just what > we would think of as "info" in terms of freedom of information > requests. > > >> Jennifer >> >> --- On Tue, 7/8/08, Cory Horner <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> From: Cory Horner <[hidden email]> >>> Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Getting Tools Built >>> To: "civicaccess discuss" <[hidden email]> >>> Received: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 2:38 AM >>> A while back there was brief discussion about CivicAccess >>> becoming an >>> umbrella foundation/non-profit to conglomerate the various >>> Canadian >>> access-related projects. I see a real need/use for this, >>> as i'm sure >>> each little project has little interest in all the >>> paperwork involved >>> to achieve non-profit status, when all they want is a >>> little >>> financial support; sticking a little "a CivicAccess >>> project" logo in >>> the corner is a lot more appealing. >>> >>> To contrast the two examples given by Jennifer, I guess I >>> see >>> mySociety as a handful of people who built tools who then >>> built a non- >>> profit around it, versus Sunlight as a group with a bucket >>> of money >>> who then built tools. CivicAccess and VisibleGovernment >>> seem to be >>> taking the similar approaches, respectively. >>> >>> My question is, are CivicAccess and VisibleGovernment >>> competing, or >>> should we try to, for example, make CivicAccess the >>> umbrella/ >>> community, and VisibleGovernment the fundraising wing? Is >>> there is a >>> difference that i'm not seeing here, besides branding? >>> (or is having >>> 2 entities too confusing?) >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Cory. >>> >>> On 7-Jul-08, at 1:11 PM, Jennifer Bell wrote: >>> >>>> I've been thinking the last while about the best >>> approach for >>>> promoting the creation of online tools for government >>> >>>> transparency. The Sunlight Foundation in the US and >>> mySociety in >>>> the UK are showing that the government can be changed >>> by example, >>>> from the outside. It just takes people to push to >>> make it happen. >>>> >>>> What will it take to get a similar movement going here >>> in Canada? >>>> As I know there are several people here with >>> experience in similar >>>> groups, I'd like to get your opinions. >>>> >>>> The ingredients, as I see them, are: >>>> >>>> 1) Money. >>>> 2) A Community. >>>> 3) A Tool. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss >> >> >> >> __________________________________________________________________ >> Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! >> >> http://www.flickr.com/gift/ >> _______________________________________________ >> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss |
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In reply to this post by Jennifer Bell
Hello,
It's great that you're pushing this conversation, Jennifer. My thoughts about making this happen in Canada to a larger degree is that we need more people like yourself: -understand technology / aren't afraid of it. -have an understanding of business / financing. -are committed to making something happen. I think that's what we're missing, not a specific form of organizing. Personally I don't like the idea of either CivicAccess or your project being the one-stop-shop for all of this work. I believe in an approach of diversity and competition in the open-source space. More than processes and structures that look good on paper, I think we need some more concrete examples of working projects as well as people who have 1, 2, 3 + citizen information projects under their belt. In the past I've offered to help howdtheyvote raise some funds because the experience and commitment is already visible. Currently I'm just finishing a demo of something I want to see built and will try to go fundraise for it. That being said, I agree with your and Cory's point that there is a natural point of friction for geeks that want to build projects but don't want to bother with legal status for each or don't have the skillset to do fundraising. I think that there's great work to do there. But first, i think we need some more actual projects that are funded by either individual donors or by foundations. That will establish the movement as more credible. Mike On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 4:11 PM, Jennifer Bell <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hello all, > > I've been thinking the last while about the best approach for promoting the creation of online tools for government transparency. The Sunlight Foundation in the US and mySociety in the UK are showing that the government can be changed by example, from the outside. It just takes people to push to make it happen. > > What will it take to get a similar movement going here in Canada? As I know there are several people here with experience in similar groups, I'd like to get your opinions. > > The ingredients, as I see them, are: > > 1) Money. > > The Sunlight Foundation initially had a single large donor, who put up a seed of 3.5M. > > 2) A Community. > > barcamps are a great example of people coming together to learn and share. E-gov sessions can be tagged on to existing barcamps, and dedicated events held once there's some interest. > > Possibly, these could be supplemented with invitation-only events for a more 'elite' crowd of government and high-tech representatives. > > 3) A Tool. > > There ought to be a website to formally capture ideas for tools and allow them to be developed by the community. There's a rough plan for one here, which I'd like feedback on: > > http://groups.google.com/group/visiblegovernment-discuss/browse_thread/thread/9b0211b0b51965df?hl=en > > .... > > I would appreciate any input. > > At a recent conference, the moderator started out by saying 'I believe in the wisdom of crowds, and I believe we have a very wise crowd here today'. > > Jennifer > visiblegovernment.ca > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss > |
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Thanks, Micheal, you bring up some good points re: the fact that there ought to be competition. As for example sites, there's a couple on the go at VisibleGovernment as well. The idea was to shepherd these ones through the planning process and use them, as well as howdtheyvote and theyworkforyou as examples for raising money. I've been getting some input from end users in advocacy groups, but the project groups definitely could use more input - particularly from people with technical backgrounds (hint, hint). The two pilots are: - an expense database that allows advocacy groups and journalists to visualize / tag / screen hospitality and expense data. - an access to information front end, modeled on WhatDoTheyKnow from the UK There's more information in the groups linked from the project pages here: http://visiblegovernment.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=4&Itemid=28 Please take a look and see if you feel like getting involved. Jennifer --- On Tue, 7/8/08, Michael Lenczner <[hidden email]> wrote: > From: Michael Lenczner <[hidden email]> > Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Getting Tools Built > To: [hidden email], "civicaccess discuss" <[hidden email]> > Received: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 12:04 PM > Hello, > > It's great that you're pushing this conversation, > Jennifer. > > My thoughts about making this happen in Canada to a larger > degree is > that we need more people like yourself: > > -understand technology / aren't afraid of it. > -have an understanding of business / financing. > -are committed to making something happen. > > I think that's what we're missing, not a specific > form of organizing. > Personally I don't like the idea of either CivicAccess > or your project > being the one-stop-shop for all of this work. I believe in > an > approach of diversity and competition in the open-source > space. > > More than processes and structures that look good on paper, > I think we > need some more concrete examples of working projects as > well as people > who have 1, 2, 3 + citizen information projects under their > belt. In > the past I've offered to help howdtheyvote raise some > funds because > the experience and commitment is already visible. > Currently I'm just > finishing a demo of something I want to see built and will > try to go > fundraise for it. > > That being said, I agree with your and Cory's point > that there is a > natural point of friction for geeks that want to build > projects but > don't want to bother with legal status for each or > don't have the > skillset to do fundraising. I think that there's great > work to do > there. But first, i think we need some more actual > projects that are > funded by either individual donors or by foundations. That > will > establish the movement as more credible. > > Mike > > On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 4:11 PM, Jennifer Bell > <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > I've been thinking the last while about the best > approach for promoting the creation of online tools for > government transparency. The Sunlight Foundation in the US > and mySociety in the UK are showing that the government can > be changed by example, from the outside. It just takes > people to push to make it happen. > > > > What will it take to get a similar movement going here > in Canada? As I know there are several people here with > experience in similar groups, I'd like to get your > opinions. > > > > The ingredients, as I see them, are: > > > > 1) Money. > > > > The Sunlight Foundation initially had a single large > donor, who put up a seed of 3.5M. > > > > 2) A Community. > > > > barcamps are a great example of people coming together > to learn and share. E-gov sessions can be tagged on to > existing barcamps, and dedicated events held once > there's some interest. > > > > Possibly, these could be supplemented with > invitation-only events for a more 'elite' crowd of > government and high-tech representatives. > > > > 3) A Tool. > > > > There ought to be a website to formally capture ideas > for tools and allow them to be developed by the community. > There's a rough plan for one here, which I'd like > feedback on: > > > > > http://groups.google.com/group/visiblegovernment-discuss/browse_thread/thread/9b0211b0b51965df?hl=en > > > > .... > > > > I would appreciate any input. > > > > At a recent conference, the moderator started out by > saying 'I believe in the wisdom of crowds, and I > believe we have a very wise crowd here today'. > > > > Jennifer > > visiblegovernment.ca > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the > web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at > > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. > > _______________________________________________ > > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > > [hidden email] > > > http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss > > __________________________________________________________________ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com |
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Hey gang!
I like that we are a loose group sharing info, discussing, with clusters of people working together when needed/wanted, writing together, co-authoring blogs, and building things. It is also really nice that we take the time to meet face to face from time to time just to get to know each other more. - non-profit or a more formalized organizational form, it is possible, however, i am not sure now is the time. It is also really nice that people who are off doing their org work can come here to discuss what is up, tap into knowledge etc. - competition or other similar/related projects on the go, that is just good. It helps create a heterogeneous and more robust information ecology around the topic of civic access. - as for data, I am for all data not just scientific, its just that I have a penchant for that type of data because of my work, and we took great pains to ensure at the beginning to ensure that we include information (e.g. government reports, meeting minutes, foi requests, etc.), and the development of tools to make that access better, easier, aesthetically pleasing, etc. - financial resources are required for projects, we can certainly find interesting ways to have another org that has an established financial infrastructure and organization in place to help out or perhaps a group of people from here work together to get something off the ground. - Lobbying/advocacy work is also an important part of all of this, and so far a few things have been done and it would be good to work on that a bit more. - city sondage, i am up for that. I am working with a bunch of cities right now and would love for them to make their data available. If people want to work on that again, I am most certainly interested as it would provide us with real fodder for a debate. - CivicAccess.ca right now has librarians, archivists, hacktivists, geeks, social data enthusiasts, open government, social policy, writers, new media folks, scientific data and open access folks. They are each unique communities and some meet at conferences, some will go to barcamps, others go for dinner. At some point it would be fantastic to find a forum that is not community specific that can get these groups together. - we have also been tagging stuff in delicious & flickr with COACID and civicaccess, and it would be great if we continued to do that as that will just make access to pooled resources richer. Cheers t On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 8:42 PM, Jennifer Bell <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- Tracey P. Lauriault [hidden email] https://gcrc.carleton.ca/confluence/display/GCRCWEB/Lauriault |
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In reply to this post by Hugh McGuire-2
To add to the categories of data that ought to be exposed: information and statistics on internal government processes. eg. For recurring service processes: - How are service processes designed? - What are the throughputs at each stage? For initiatives: - What initiatives are underway? - What metrics are they designed to improve? - Are they improving them? - Is the initiative on time / on budget? This is almost too far down the road to see it from here, but some people are starting to put together ideas on how this can be brought off, by exposing parts of government internal IT infrastructure. See the diagram here: http://powerofinformation.wordpress.com/2008/06/19/more-architecture/ Also, the concept is part of the framing arguments for this paper, 'Government Data and the Invisible Hand' here: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1138083 For a 'right now' example, Steve Clift had an anecdote in his presentation at PDF08 how, in Estonia, the entire government document repository is open for browsing, so that citizens have access to documents as they're being drafted. Jennifer --- On Tue, 7/8/08, Hugh McGuire <[hidden email]> wrote: > From: Hugh McGuire <[hidden email]> > Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Getting Tools Built > To: "civicaccess discuss" <[hidden email]> > Received: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 11:53 AM > yes! all government data sets - environment canada, natural > resources > canada, health canada, ... I want it all opened up (subject > to > reasonable privacy constraints, of course). > On Jul 8, 2008, at 11:42 AM, Michael Lenczner wrote: > > > On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 8:55 AM, Jennifer Bell > > <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> I met with Micheal Lenczner at a coffee shop in > April, and was > >> told that CivicAccess was a community of interest, > with no > >> specific plans for the future. > >> > > > > I'm sorry for the miscommunication Jen. What I > meant to say that it > > was my impression that CivicAccess had no immediate > plans for any > > legal shape. I just think it's very important > that people know what > > they are getting into - especially around areas of > governance. I'm > > sure that there are projects or campaigns that can be > done with/by > > Civicaccess, but I just didn't / don't see a > CivicAccess office > > happening anytime soon, or even a board. It could > happen, but someone > > would have to propose something clear. Also, I do > believe that a > > neutral place of discussion and support is important > for a movement > > like this. > > > >> There's nothing wrong with maintaining a > separate 'community of > >> interest'... my impression was that > CivicAccess seems to have a > >> broader focus than visiblegovernment, with more > interest in > >> scientific data. > >> > > > > Well, Tracey does love scientific data. ;-) And yeah > - we had early > > discussions about having access to government > datasets, not just what > > we would think of as "info" in terms of > freedom of information > > requests. > > > > > >> Jennifer > >> > >> --- On Tue, 7/8/08, Cory Horner > <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> > >>> From: Cory Horner <[hidden email]> > >>> Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Getting > Tools Built > >>> To: "civicaccess discuss" > <[hidden email]> > >>> Received: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 2:38 AM > >>> A while back there was brief discussion about > CivicAccess > >>> becoming an > >>> umbrella foundation/non-profit to conglomerate > the various > >>> Canadian > >>> access-related projects. I see a real > need/use for this, > >>> as i'm sure > >>> each little project has little interest in all > the > >>> paperwork involved > >>> to achieve non-profit status, when all they > want is a > >>> little > >>> financial support; sticking a little "a > CivicAccess > >>> project" logo in > >>> the corner is a lot more appealing. > >>> > >>> To contrast the two examples given by > Jennifer, I guess I > >>> see > >>> mySociety as a handful of people who built > tools who then > >>> built a non- > >>> profit around it, versus Sunlight as a group > with a bucket > >>> of money > >>> who then built tools. CivicAccess and > VisibleGovernment > >>> seem to be > >>> taking the similar approaches, respectively. > >>> > >>> My question is, are CivicAccess and > VisibleGovernment > >>> competing, or > >>> should we try to, for example, make > CivicAccess the > >>> umbrella/ > >>> community, and VisibleGovernment the > fundraising wing? Is > >>> there is a > >>> difference that i'm not seeing here, > besides branding? > >>> (or is having > >>> 2 entities too confusing?) > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> Cory. > >>> > >>> On 7-Jul-08, at 1:11 PM, Jennifer Bell wrote: > >>> > >>>> I've been thinking the last while > about the best > >>> approach for > >>>> promoting the creation of online tools for > government > >>> > >>>> transparency. The Sunlight Foundation in > the US and > >>> mySociety in > >>>> the UK are showing that the government can > be changed > >>> by example, > >>>> from the outside. It just takes people to > push to > >>> make it happen. > >>>> > >>>> What will it take to get a similar > movement going here > >>> in Canada? > >>>> As I know there are several people here > with > >>> experience in similar > >>>> groups, I'd like to get your opinions. > >>>> > >>>> The ingredients, as I see them, are: > >>>> > >>>> 1) Money. > >>>> 2) A Community. > >>>> 3) A Tool. > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > >>> [hidden email] > >>> > http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss > >> > >> > >> > >> > __________________________________________________________________ > >> Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of > Flickr! > >> > >> http://www.flickr.com/gift/ > >> _______________________________________________ > >> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > >> [hidden email] > >> > http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > > [hidden email] > > > http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. |
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