activities, resources, long pages,
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activities, resources, long pages,
 
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Bonjour gang!
Bon faut jouer dehors dans la neige! Mais avant d'y aller, j'ai téléchargé (is that the word for upload/post?) du nouveau matériel sur le wiki. J'ai déveloper une section s'appelant activités, je suggère que l'on change navigation à resources, et je cherche le camel case pour Participants! Stéphane, je m'excuse que je pense plus en anglais qu'en francais quand j'écris! Mauvaise habitude pour le moment! De même, une fois que nous serions d'accord du matériel téléchargé dans le wiki ce serait le fun qu'on travaille ensemble pour traduire. Je pense que les pages seront très longues, donc peut-etre nous devrions créer un tableau pour diviser les pages en deux sur la verticale? Qu'en pensez-vous? ciao les amis! il faut maintenant aller complétez le niveau de l'arsenal de mes boulles de neige! Tracey |
Re: activities, resources, long pages,
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On 11/26/05, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Bonjour gang! > > Bon faut jouer dehors dans la neige! > > Mais avant d'y aller, j'ai téléchargé (is that the word for > upload/post?) du nouveau matériel sur le wiki. > J'ai déveloper une section s'appelant activités I have mixed feelings about that page. I thought about it for 20 minutes and I don't think it's that I disagree with the content (although I don't think "documenting" is a good way to get people involved - but I may be wrong). What i don't like is the tone. It has this feel of "Citizens for open access" actually *being* something. Some kind of organization. Something larger than the sum of it's parts. It has a feeling of pretension - not arrogance - but of intimating that we are not just 4 random people from different places across canada. I'm wary of that. I think that is our most valuable attribute, our strongest weapon. We're just 4 regular people from different areas of canada and different professions and we see this issue as important to us. Anything that obfuscates that - that lessens the impact of that point must be done with full awareness. This is why I want the wiki to stay a little thin, and a little rough. If it is too polished, we are implicityly saying that we only have permission to attempt this kind of initiative if we are good enough - smart enough, have enough expertise, enough education. That's exactly the point of view that we're trying to tear down. You don't need to be someone in a three piece suit to have an interest in or an ability to look at this data/information. you can be anyone. And I think the wiki and the mailing list and our language should reflect that. That means resisting the impulse to overly coordinate, make too many backup references / footnotes to arguements, use professional language, etc. We have to dumb things down - not because the four of us aren't smart enough to handle them - but because these things (jargon - but also polish, "professionalism", and even perfection are walls to keep regular people out. And the other thing I don't like about the activities page is that it implies a direction to COACD. To me this is not a direction. this is a meeting place. There is a huge difference between a bandwagon going somewhere and a crossroads where people can find each other, share some stories, and shoot the shit (all around a special interest, mind you). >, je suggère que l'on > change navigation à resources, i kept navigation but i created another page called Resources and I moved the provinces + cities over to there. > et je cherche le camel case pour > Participants! to link to participants use ["Participants"] Thats what you do when something isn't CamelCase but it's on the top level. > > Stéphane, je m'excuse que je pense plus en anglais qu'en francais quand > j'écris! Mauvaise habitude pour le moment! De même, une fois que nous > serions d'accord du matériel téléchargé dans le wiki ce serait le fun > qu'on travaille ensemble pour traduire. Je pense que les pages seront > très longues, donc peut-etre nous devrions créer un tableau pour diviser > les pages en deux sur la verticale? Qu'en pensez-vous? > > ciao les amis! il faut maintenant aller complétez le niveau de l'arsenal > de mes boulles de neige! > Tracey > > mike > > > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > [hidden email] > http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca > |
Re: activities, resources, long pages,
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Hmm! Not my intention! Geez! Did not know I was one of -you know- one of
those..... Is there a way to take away the officiousness & directedness but leave in some hints in how to play! Particularly for people who do not know how these things work! Like myself! Not attached to the word document. I guess there is a spectrum of people from different communities who might have different expectations and we need to find that collective sweet spot. Michael Lenczner wrote: >On 11/26/05, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote: > > >>Bonjour gang! >> >>Bon faut jouer dehors dans la neige! >> >>Mais avant d'y aller, j'ai téléchargé (is that the word for >>upload/post?) du nouveau matériel sur le wiki. >>J'ai déveloper une section s'appelant activités >> >> > >I have mixed feelings about that page. I thought about it for 20 >minutes and I don't think it's that I disagree with the content >(although I don't think "documenting" is a good way to get people >involved - but I may be wrong). > >What i don't like is the tone. It has this feel of "Citizens for open >access" actually *being* something. Some kind of organization. >Something larger than the sum of it's parts. It has a feeling of >pretension - not arrogance - but of intimating that we are not just 4 >random people from different places across canada. > >I'm wary of that. I think that is our most valuable attribute, our >strongest weapon. We're just 4 regular people from different areas of >canada and different professions and we see this issue as important to >us. Anything that obfuscates that - that lessens the impact of that >point must be done with full awareness. This is why I want the wiki >to stay a little thin, and a little rough. If it is too polished, we >are implicityly saying that we only have permission to attempt this >kind of initiative if we are good enough - smart enough, have enough >expertise, enough education. That's exactly the point of view that >we're trying to tear down. You don't need to be someone in a three >piece suit to have an interest in or an ability to look at this >data/information. you can be anyone. And I think the wiki and the >mailing list and our language should reflect that. That means >resisting the impulse to overly coordinate, make too many backup >references / footnotes to arguements, use professional language, etc. >We have to dumb things down - not because the four of us aren't smart >enough to handle them - but because these things (jargon - but also >polish, "professionalism", and even perfection are walls to keep >regular people out. > >And the other thing I don't like about the activities page is that it >implies a direction to COACD. To me this is not a direction. this is >a meeting place. There is a huge difference between a bandwagon going >somewhere and a crossroads where people can find each other, share >some stories, and shoot the shit (all around a special interest, mind >you). > > > >>, je suggère que l'on >>change navigation à resources, >> >> > >i kept navigation but i created another page called Resources and I >moved the provinces + cities over to there. > > > >>et je cherche le camel case pour >>Participants! >> >> > >to link to participants use ["Participants"] > >Thats what you do when something isn't CamelCase but it's on the top level. > > >>Stéphane, je m'excuse que je pense plus en anglais qu'en francais quand >>j'écris! Mauvaise habitude pour le moment! De même, une fois que nous >>serions d'accord du matériel téléchargé dans le wiki ce serait le fun >>qu'on travaille ensemble pour traduire. Je pense que les pages seront >>très longues, donc peut-etre nous devrions créer un tableau pour diviser >>les pages en deux sur la verticale? Qu'en pensez-vous? >> >>ciao les amis! il faut maintenant aller complétez le niveau de l'arsenal >>de mes boulles de neige! >>Tracey >> >> >> >> > >mike > > > >>_______________________________________________ >>CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>[hidden email] >>http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >[hidden email] >http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca > > > > |
Re: activities, resources, long pages,
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On 11/26/05, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hmm! Not my intention! Geez! Did not know I was one of -you know- one of > those..... > hehe. you're not. i'm mostly taking direction from you. :-) > Is there a way to take away the officiousness & directedness but leave > in some hints in how to play! Particularly for people who do not know > how these things work! Like myself! yeah- that's a good point - the wiki should have something saying how to participate. I'll try to edit what you did into version 2 and you can respond to that. > Not attached to the word document. kay. > I guess there is a spectrum of people from different communities who > might have different expectations and we need to find that collective > sweet spot. > hmm. I always have problems with this mythical land of inclusion where everything is neutral and everyone is equally welcome (I'm not saying that you're suggesting such a place, tracey). I would say that there are already places for some of the people working in this area. And those people are mostly experts (as librarians, statisticians, bureaucrats, etc). I would like COACD to be less rarified place where I could hang out in my jeans and not be intimidated - but where people's expertise and experience is respected. Basically to tell the "experts" that we welcome their knowledge, but to check their ego's at the door. is that being too confrontational of me? I'm just really tired of being told that stuff is beyond me/us. And that message is as conveyed by "experts" in the community and non-profit sector as it is by the authorities. I think i need to go have some tea and chill out. I know that you're saying that it is so much better to have a place where geeks and youth can gain for the experience and knowledge of people already in the field. I think I would rather fail on the side of overly democratic and populist rather than expert and exclusive. But hopefully we don't have to fail and we can hit that sweet spot. mike > > > Michael Lenczner wrote: > > >On 11/26/05, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > >>Bonjour gang! > >> > >>Bon faut jouer dehors dans la neige! > >> > >>Mais avant d'y aller, j'ai téléchargé (is that the word for > >>upload/post?) du nouveau matériel sur le wiki. > >>J'ai déveloper une section s'appelant activités > >> > >> > > > >I have mixed feelings about that page. I thought about it for 20 > >minutes and I don't think it's that I disagree with the content > >(although I don't think "documenting" is a good way to get people > >involved - but I may be wrong). > > > >What i don't like is the tone. It has this feel of "Citizens for open > >access" actually *being* something. Some kind of organization. > >Something larger than the sum of it's parts. It has a feeling of > >pretension - not arrogance - but of intimating that we are not just 4 > >random people from different places across canada. > > > >I'm wary of that. I think that is our most valuable attribute, our > >strongest weapon. We're just 4 regular people from different areas of > >canada and different professions and we see this issue as important to > >us. Anything that obfuscates that - that lessens the impact of that > >point must be done with full awareness. This is why I want the wiki > >to stay a little thin, and a little rough. If it is too polished, we > >are implicityly saying that we only have permission to attempt this > >kind of initiative if we are good enough - smart enough, have enough > >expertise, enough education. That's exactly the point of view that > >we're trying to tear down. You don't need to be someone in a three > >piece suit to have an interest in or an ability to look at this > >data/information. you can be anyone. And I think the wiki and the > >mailing list and our language should reflect that. That means > >resisting the impulse to overly coordinate, make too many backup > >references / footnotes to arguements, use professional language, etc. > >We have to dumb things down - not because the four of us aren't smart > >enough to handle them - but because these things (jargon - but also > >polish, "professionalism", and even perfection are walls to keep > >regular people out. > > > >And the other thing I don't like about the activities page is that it > >implies a direction to COACD. To me this is not a direction. this is > >a meeting place. There is a huge difference between a bandwagon going > >somewhere and a crossroads where people can find each other, share > >some stories, and shoot the shit (all around a special interest, mind > >you). > > > > > > > >>, je suggère que l'on > >>change navigation à resources, > >> > >> > > > >i kept navigation but i created another page called Resources and I > >moved the provinces + cities over to there. > > > > > > > >>et je cherche le camel case pour > >>Participants! > >> > >> > > > >to link to participants use ["Participants"] > > > >Thats what you do when something isn't CamelCase but it's on the top level. > > > > > >>Stéphane, je m'excuse que je pense plus en anglais qu'en francais quand > >>j'écris! Mauvaise habitude pour le moment! De même, une fois que nous > >>serions d'accord du matériel téléchargé dans le wiki ce serait le fun > >>qu'on travaille ensemble pour traduire. Je pense que les pages seront > >>très longues, donc peut-etre nous devrions créer un tableau pour diviser > >>les pages en deux sur la verticale? Qu'en pensez-vous? > >> > >>ciao les amis! il faut maintenant aller complétez le niveau de l'arsenal > >>de mes boulles de neige! > >>Tracey > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > >mike > > > > > > > >>_______________________________________________ > >>CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > >>[hidden email] > >>http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca > >> > >> > >> > > > >_______________________________________________ > >CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > >[hidden email] > >http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list > [hidden email] > http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca > |
Re: activities, resources, long pages,
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As the CF - confrontation is a character trait!
And edit away & have tea! As for typecasting bureaucrats - La société du spectacle! Tous le monde porte des costume et assume des roles et des fonctions! Il y a des fonctionnaires qui porte des vieux jeans qui sont très conservateurs et il y des fonctionnaires qui sont des radicaux en costume de trois morceaux! Ils font ce qu'ils on a faire pour payer le loyer et naviguer le système de façons qu'ils peuvent créer des programmes subversifs comme GeoGratis et DLI. The Les bibliothécaire en effets sont les plus radicaux! Et c'est les statisciens qui sont le plus contre les programmes - cost recovery! C'est les gars du secteur privé qui nous cause le plus de défis. Yes! Concensus is overatted! CF says - "I think I would rather fail on the side of overly democratic and populist rather than expert and exclusive." Sounds good! Lead the way! Next week I will try to go out with some of those bureaucrats dressed in 3 piece drag and see if I can get them involved! Especially the retired ones who no longer have to perform on the gov stage! Hey! I think Stephane is a bureaucrat! He is ok is he not! Ciao for now! Tracey Michael Lenczner wrote: >On 11/26/05, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote: > > >>Hmm! Not my intention! Geez! Did not know I was one of -you know- one of >>those..... >> >> >> >hehe. you're not. i'm mostly taking direction from you. :-) > > > >>Is there a way to take away the officiousness & directedness but leave >>in some hints in how to play! Particularly for people who do not know >>how these things work! Like myself! >> >> > >yeah- that's a good point - the wiki should have something saying how >to participate. I'll try to edit what you did into version 2 and you >can respond to that. > > > >>Not attached to the word document. >> >> > >kay. > > >>I guess there is a spectrum of people from different communities who >>might have different expectations and we need to find that collective >>sweet spot. >> >> >> >hmm. I always have problems with this mythical land of inclusion >where everything is neutral and everyone is equally welcome (I'm not >saying that you're suggesting such a place, tracey). I would say that >there are already places for some of the people working in this area. >And those people are mostly experts (as librarians, statisticians, >bureaucrats, etc). I would like COACD to be less rarified place where >I could hang out in my jeans and not be intimidated - but where >people's expertise and experience is respected. Basically to tell the >"experts" that we welcome their knowledge, but to check their ego's at >the door. > >is that being too confrontational of me? I'm just really tired of >being told that stuff is beyond me/us. And that message is as >conveyed by "experts" in the community and non-profit sector as it is >by the authorities. > >I think i need to go have some tea and chill out. I know that you're >saying that it is so much better to have a place where geeks and youth >can gain for the experience and knowledge of people already in the >field. I think I would rather fail on the side of overly democratic >and populist rather than expert and exclusive. But hopefully we don't >have to fail and we can hit that sweet spot. > >mike > > > >>Michael Lenczner wrote: >> >> >> >>>On 11/26/05, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Bonjour gang! >>>> >>>>Bon faut jouer dehors dans la neige! >>>> >>>>Mais avant d'y aller, j'ai téléchargé (is that the word for >>>>upload/post?) du nouveau matériel sur le wiki. >>>>J'ai déveloper une section s'appelant activités >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>I have mixed feelings about that page. I thought about it for 20 >>>minutes and I don't think it's that I disagree with the content >>>(although I don't think "documenting" is a good way to get people >>>involved - but I may be wrong). >>> >>>What i don't like is the tone. It has this feel of "Citizens for open >>>access" actually *being* something. Some kind of organization. >>>Something larger than the sum of it's parts. It has a feeling of >>>pretension - not arrogance - but of intimating that we are not just 4 >>>random people from different places across canada. >>> >>>I'm wary of that. I think that is our most valuable attribute, our >>>strongest weapon. We're just 4 regular people from different areas of >>>canada and different professions and we see this issue as important to >>>us. Anything that obfuscates that - that lessens the impact of that >>>point must be done with full awareness. This is why I want the wiki >>>to stay a little thin, and a little rough. If it is too polished, we >>>are implicityly saying that we only have permission to attempt this >>>kind of initiative if we are good enough - smart enough, have enough >>>expertise, enough education. That's exactly the point of view that >>>we're trying to tear down. You don't need to be someone in a three >>>piece suit to have an interest in or an ability to look at this >>>data/information. you can be anyone. And I think the wiki and the >>>mailing list and our language should reflect that. That means >>>resisting the impulse to overly coordinate, make too many backup >>>references / footnotes to arguements, use professional language, etc. >>>We have to dumb things down - not because the four of us aren't smart >>>enough to handle them - but because these things (jargon - but also >>>polish, "professionalism", and even perfection are walls to keep >>>regular people out. >>> >>>And the other thing I don't like about the activities page is that it >>>implies a direction to COACD. To me this is not a direction. this is >>>a meeting place. There is a huge difference between a bandwagon going >>>somewhere and a crossroads where people can find each other, share >>>some stories, and shoot the shit (all around a special interest, mind >>>you). >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>, je suggère que l'on >>>>change navigation à resources, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>i kept navigation but i created another page called Resources and I >>>moved the provinces + cities over to there. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>et je cherche le camel case pour >>>>Participants! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>to link to participants use ["Participants"] >>> >>>Thats what you do when something isn't CamelCase but it's on the top level. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Stéphane, je m'excuse que je pense plus en anglais qu'en francais quand >>>>j'écris! Mauvaise habitude pour le moment! De même, une fois que nous >>>>serions d'accord du matériel téléchargé dans le wiki ce serait le fun >>>>qu'on travaille ensemble pour traduire. Je pense que les pages seront >>>>très longues, donc peut-etre nous devrions créer un tableau pour diviser >>>>les pages en deux sur la verticale? Qu'en pensez-vous? >>>> >>>>ciao les amis! il faut maintenant aller complétez le niveau de l'arsenal >>>>de mes boulles de neige! >>>>Tracey >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>mike >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>>>[hidden email] >>>>http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>>[hidden email] >>>http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >>[hidden email] >>http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >CivicAccess-discuss mailing list >[hidden email] >http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss_civicaccess.ca > > > > |
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