Re: CivicAccess-discuss Digest, Vol 16, Issue 11

[Joe Murray]

I have the GIS software and electoral map boundaries, but not an up-to-date
PC with centroid data layer.

Joe
 

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> Sent: February 7, 2007 12:00 PM
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> Subject: CivicAccess-discuss Digest, Vol 16, Issue 11
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: elections canada (Russell McOrmond)
>    2. Re: elections canada (Daniel Haran)
>    3. Re: elections canada (Hugh McGuire)
>    4. Re: elections canada (Hugh McGuire)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 16:09:39 -0500
> From: Russell McOrmond <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] elections canada
> To: civicaccess discuss <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> St?phane Zagar wrote:
>
> > What's the real problem with district localization (ZIP and EDID)
> > - is it because it's covered by a copyright that make it
> impossible to
> > use even if we get it ?
>
>    Zip is US, and in the USA there is no crown copyright and
> thus they don't have that problem.
>
>    In Canada the problem is that Statistics Canada has crown
> copyright on the data and a "cost recovery" scheme where they
> sell the data under a draconian EULA.
>
>    Elections Canada has their own version, but doesn't
> publicly release it because Statistics Canada sells it.
>
> > Let's say we find a way to build a mapping database
> > (district/edid/zip), do we risk anything ?
>
>     If we did our own work of matching the geographical
> database, we can then release the information under any
> license we want (or dedicate to the public domain).  This
> would become the third known group creating this mapping  
> (Elections Canada, Statistics Canada, and then us).
>
> Note: I believe we would have to purchase data from Canada
> Post to do this, but given we wouldn't be redistributing this
> data it would be a fixed fee and not something that would
> impact on us freely distributing the results of our work.
>
>    The most efficient thing to have happen is for one of the
> two government departments to make their version available
> under a royalty-free license.  Charge if they want to send
> the data to us, but one organization could fund that and then
> freely distribute it to everyone else.
>
> --
>   Russell McOrmond, Internet Consultant: <http://www.flora.ca/>
>   Please help us tell the Canadian Parliament to protect our property
>   rights as owners of Information Technology. Sign the petition!
>   http://www.digital-copyright.ca/petition/ict/
>
>   "The government, lobbied by legacy copyright holders and hardware
>    manufacturers, can pry my camcorder, computer, home theatre, or
>    portable media player from my cold dead hands!"
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 16:22:58 -0500
> From: "Daniel Haran" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] elections canada
> To: "civicaccess discuss" <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID:
> <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 2/6/07, Russell McOrmond <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Note: I believe we would have to purchase data from Canada
> Post to do
> > this, but given we wouldn't be redistributing this data it
> would be a
> > fixed fee and not something that would impact on us freely
> distributing
> > the results of our work.
>
> When I asked Canada Post about it, they said they wouldn't allow the
> creation of such a derivative data-set.
>
> If that's not a good legal interpretation (any lawyers here?), we
> would be able to buy Canada Post's data, and if there's someone with
> GIS knowledge that can process that data against the parliamentary
> district boundaries, we could put the postal code to electoral
> district database in the public domain.
>
> Sadly, postal codes change quite often- but that solution would still
> be cheaper than buying a single license for makepovertyhistory.
>
> d.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 18:12:34 -0500
> From: Hugh McGuire <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] elections canada
> To: civicaccess discuss <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> from the start it seemed to me that civicaccess.ca needed some very  
> specific, small projects to work on. This one (postal codes and  
> electoral districts) seems very interesting for many reasons:
>
> 1. simple: everyone understands what this data is, and why it might  
> be useful to citizens
> 2. crazy: everyone in the world will think it crazy that this
> data is  
> not freely available to citizens
> 3. press: it is so simple and crazy that I bet there could be a good  
> tizzy of press created about this - certainly on the web: no doubt  
> boing boing will be interested, but others as well, hopefully some  
> papers in canada
> 4. given 1,2,3 it is an ideal test-case for why civic access to data  
> is important, and why canada needs to update its stupid policies
>
> I have sent out a number of emails to various Canadian agencies in  
> the last few days, with some answers I'll share with you guys
> soon. I  
> got a call back from Elections Canada, and I will ask about  
> liberating financial data - and I will ask too about the postal code  
> data. I'll keep y'all posted.
>
> Longer-term, one thing civicaccess.ca could do is try to start these  
> little discrete data liberation projects, and then get them all  
> linked together through one aggregating site (ie. a revamped  
> civicaccess.ca).
>
> cheers,
> Hugh.
>
> On Feb 6, 2007, at 4:22 PM, Daniel Haran wrote:
>
> > On 2/6/07, Russell McOrmond <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> Note: I believe we would have to purchase data from Canada
> Post to do
> >> this, but given we wouldn't be redistributing this data it
> would be a
> >> fixed fee and not something that would impact on us freely  
> >> distributing
> >> the results of our work.
> >
> > When I asked Canada Post about it, they said they wouldn't allow the
> > creation of such a derivative data-set.
> >
> > If that's not a good legal interpretation (any lawyers here?), we
> > would be able to buy Canada Post's data, and if there's someone with
> > GIS knowledge that can process that data against the parliamentary
> > district boundaries, we could put the postal code to electoral
> > district database in the public domain.
> >
> > Sadly, postal codes change quite often- but that solution
> would still
> > be cheaper than buying a single license for makepovertyhistory.
> >
> > d.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess- 
> > discuss_civicaccess.ca
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 18:14:38 -0500
> From: Hugh McGuire <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] elections canada
> To: civicaccess discuss <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> has anyone thought of using an Access to Information request to get  
> at this data?
>
>
>
> On Feb 6, 2007, at 4:09 PM, Russell McOrmond wrote:
>
> > St?phane Zagar wrote:
> >
> >> What's the real problem with district localization (ZIP and EDID)
> >> - is it because it's covered by a copyright that make it  
> >> impossible to
> >> use even if we get it ?
> >
> >    Zip is US, and in the USA there is no crown copyright
> and thus they
> > don't have that problem.
> >
> >    In Canada the problem is that Statistics Canada has
> crown copyright
> > on the data and a "cost recovery" scheme where they sell the data  
> > under
> > a draconian EULA.
> >
> >    Elections Canada has their own version, but doesn't publicly  
> > release
> > it because Statistics Canada sells it.
> >
> >> Let's say we find a way to build a mapping database
> (district/edid/
> >> zip),
> >> do we risk anything ?
> >
> >     If we did our own work of matching the geographical database,  
> > we can
> > then release the information under any license we want (or
> dedicate to
> > the public domain).  This would become the third known
> group creating
> > this mapping  (Elections Canada, Statistics Canada, and then us).
> >
> > Note: I believe we would have to purchase data from Canada
> Post to do
> > this, but given we wouldn't be redistributing this data it
> would be a
> > fixed fee and not something that would impact on us freely  
> > distributing
> > the results of our work.
> >
> >    The most efficient thing to have happen is for one of the two
> > government departments to make their version available under a
> > royalty-free license.  Charge if they want to send the data
> to us, but
> > one organization could fund that and then freely distribute it to
> > everyone else.
> >
> > --
> >   Russell McOrmond, Internet Consultant: <http://www.flora.ca/>
> >   Please help us tell the Canadian Parliament to protect
> our property
> >   rights as owners of Information Technology. Sign the petition!
> >   http://www.digital-copyright.ca/petition/ict/
> >
> >   "The government, lobbied by legacy copyright holders and hardware
> >    manufacturers, can pry my camcorder, computer, home theatre, or
> >    portable media player from my cold dead hands!"
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://civicaccess.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess- 
> > discuss_civicaccess.ca
>
>
>
>
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>
>
> End of CivicAccess-discuss Digest, Vol 16, Issue 11
> ***************************************************
>