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Please UNsubscribe Re: CivicAccess-discuss Digest, Vol 90, Issue 22

From: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Saturday, 28 February 2015, 20:03
Subject: CivicAccess-discuss Digest, Vol 90, Issue 22

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: conservatives world wide are cancelling    censuses!
(Tracey P. Lauriault)
2. Re: conservatives world wide are cancelling    censuses!
(Tracey P. Lauriault)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2015 19:58:18 +0000
From: "Tracey P. Lauriault" <[hidden email]>
To: civicaccess discuss <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] conservatives world wide are
    cancelling    censuses!
Message-ID:
    <CAPT_w+kdxFvU7uBCpja_k5FV9gFNEvMdp=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Yes John there are issues, but we are in quite a pickle in Canada at the
moment, as we spent a ton on a survey that is considered to be of very low
quality and no information on small areas. That is troublesome indeed. I
see your point on the complementarity of other datasets, but we do not have
such a system at play in Canada, unlike the Scandinavians, that is an old
infrastructure of registries. Ours took a different path. But we know
that data on the filling out of the census and the filling out of the
long-form survey are not aligned with your anecdotes of a time gone by with
your colleague.

Cheers
t

On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 7:44 PM, john whelan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From memory one basic idea is we (the government) have a lot of
> interaction with the population. So driving licence data is fairly current
> and that covers a lot of people, renewal every five years seems common. We
> have tax return data, etc etc.
>
> Just data mine it and you get a surprising amount of data and with the new
> anti-terrorist legislation there is less objection to combining data on
> privacy grounds. Even in Canada some government data bases are combined
> for a specific application, this was actually approved by the privacy
> commissionaire.
>
> Is it any less accurate than the census? Well to a conservative
> government does it matter? If there is no data then you can make
> decisions, currently they don't rely on civil servants to research etc
> anyway or certainly to the extent that we saw in the past. The census in
> any case is three years or so out of date on average anyway so from a data
> quality point of view it isn't quite as nice as we'd like it to be. Give
> me access to the provincial and municipal data bases as well as the federal
> ones including the tax data bases and I think the accuracy would be better.
>
> Having worked at Stats on the census I once asked one of my staff who was
> unmarried had he filled his census form in yet? "No, they aren't
> interested in me." was the reply and they worked on the census so what
> hope for the rest of the country and its the ones who don't answer you're
> most interested in.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 28 February 2015 at 13:49, Michael Gurstein <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Tks David,
>>
>>
>>
>> Can you point to a place where there is a discussion/critique on censuses
>> from a ?conservative? perspective?
>>
>>
>>
>> M
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* [hidden email] [mailto:
>> [hidden email]] *On Behalf Of *David Eaves
>> *Sent:* February 28, 2015 10:21 AM
>> *To:* civicaccess discuss
>> *Cc:* Canadian Association of Public Data Users
>> *Subject:* Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] conservatives world wide are
>> cancelling censuses!
>>
>>
>>
>> The short answer to that is yes. There are several conservative "think
>> tanks" and gatherings that advocate this move. If it feels coordinated
>> (that word might be too strong), it's because it is.
>>
>> --
>>
>> www.eaves.ca
>>
>> @daeaves
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Feb 28, 2015, at 10:18 AM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> are these dudes all hangin' with each other or what?
>>
>> http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/abbott-government-considers-axing-the-australian-census-to-save-money-20150219-13ieik.html
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Tracey P. Lauriault
>>
>> http://www.maynoothuniversity.ie/progcity/contributors/tracey-p-lauriault/
>>
>> https://gcrc.carleton.ca/confluence/display/GCRCWEB/Lauriault
>>
>> http://datalibre.ca/
>> @TraceyLauriault
>> *Skype:* Tracey.P.Lauriault
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
>

--
Tracey P. Lauriault
http://www.maynoothuniversity.ie/progcity/contributors/tracey-p-lauriault/
https://gcrc.carleton.ca/confluence/display/GCRCWEB/Lauriault
http://datalibre.ca/
@TraceyLauriault
*Skype:* Tracey.P.Lauriault
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2015 20:01:48 +0000
From: "Tracey P. Lauriault" <[hidden email]>
To: civicaccess discuss <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] conservatives world wide are
cancelling censuses!
Message-ID:
<CAPT_w+[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

There was Michael, but there is a requirement for massive institutional
re-alignement. There was much discussion about other models, and as just
discussed, those other models have their own technological and
social/political momentum that are quite old, centuries some of them, as
was the census in Canada, and one does not change a massive infrastructure
like a census, just by cancelling it, it takes more than a 5 year cycle to
change that. We would also have to change legislation. None of that was
however on the table when the census was cancelled.

Cheers
t

On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 7:58 PM, Michael Gurstein <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I must say that in the midst of the census discussion I was somewhat
> surprised that there wasn?t any evident attempt by the pro-census folks (of
> which I am one) to do a radical re-think of census information type
> gathering as you are hinting at below.
>
>
>
> The problem of course was the way in which the Tories acted which was that
> it was their way or the highway rather than what would have been broadly
> useful and globally significant (particularly given Canada?s (former) very
> high global reputation in those areas) i.e. a major rethink of census type
> information use and appropriate ways in which that information could be
> derived of which the traditional census is of course only one.
>
>
>
> M
>
>
>
> *From:* [hidden email] [mailto:
> [hidden email]] *On Behalf Of *john whelan
> *Sent:* February 28, 2015 11:45 AM
> *To:* civicaccess discuss
>
> *Subject:* Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] conservatives world wide are
> cancelling censuses!
>
>
>
> From memory one basic idea is we (the government) have a lot of
> interaction with the population. So driving licence data is fairly current
> and that covers a lot of people, renewal every five years seems common. We
> have tax return data, etc etc.
>
> Just data mine it and you get a surprising amount of data and with the new
> anti-terrorist legislation there is less objection to combining data on
> privacy grounds. Even in Canada some government data bases are combined
> for a specific application, this was actually approved by the privacy
> commissionaire.
>
> Is it any less accurate than the census? Well to a conservative
> government does it matter? If there is no data then you can make
> decisions, currently they don't rely on civil servants to research etc
> anyway or certainly to the extent that we saw in the past. The census in
> any case is three years or so out of date on average anyway so from a data
> quality point of view it isn't quite as nice as we'd like it to be. Give
> me access to the provincial and municipal data bases as well as the federal
> ones including the tax data bases and I think the accuracy would be better.
>
> Having worked at Stats on the census I once asked one of my staff who was
> unmarried had he filled his census form in yet? "No, they aren't
> interested in me." was the reply and they worked on the census so what
> hope for the rest of the country and its the ones who don't answer you're
> most interested in.
>
> Cheerio John
>
>
>
> On 28 February 2015 at 13:49, Michael Gurstein <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Tks David,
>
>
>
> Can you point to a place where there is a discussion/critique on censuses
> from a ?conservative? perspective?
>
>
>
> M
>
>
>
> *From:* [hidden email] [mailto:
> [hidden email]] *On Behalf Of *David Eaves
> *Sent:* February 28, 2015 10:21 AM
> *To:* civicaccess discuss
> *Cc:* Canadian Association of Public Data Users
> *Subject:* Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] conservatives world wide are
> cancelling censuses!
>
>
>
> The short answer to that is yes. There are several conservative "think
> tanks" and gatherings that advocate this move. If it feels coordinated
> (that word might be too strong), it's because it is.
>
> --
>
> www.eaves.ca
>
> @daeaves
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Feb 28, 2015, at 10:18 AM, Tracey P. Lauriault <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> are these dudes all hangin' with each other or what?
>
> http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/abbott-government-considers-axing-the-australian-census-to-save-money-20150219-13ieik.html
>
>
> --
>
> Tracey P. Lauriault
>
> http://www.maynoothuniversity.ie/progcity/contributors/tracey-p-lauriault/
>
> https://gcrc.carleton.ca/confluence/display/GCRCWEB/Lauriault
>
> http://datalibre.ca/
> @TraceyLauriault
> *Skype:* Tracey.P.Lauriault
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
>

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