Open Government Partnership and Canadian Civil Society

[michael gurstein]

I had the privilege of attending the Inaugural meeting of the Open
Government Partnership in Brasilia in April as a researcher but in addition
I was asked to contribute (participate on a panel) as a member of Civil
Society.

Among many observations that I came away with from the meeting were several
concerning Civil Society and specifically the very significant role that
Civil Society is being expected play in the on-going OGP, and the consequent
need for CS in this sector to become effectively organized and structured at
both the national and the global levels.  Since the intention is that the
OGP is a "member" organization, with a requirement on governments to ensure
participation in all aspects of their OGD planning and implementation there
is very considerable pressure for national civil societies to organize
themselves into some sort of coherent body i.e. a body that is capable of
acting as an effective interlocutor with government -- not necessarily
speaking with one voice but at least being able to formulate a coherent
response/intervention to government initiatives.

It is already clear from the lead up to the Brasilia meeting, the meeting
itself and the fall-out from the meeting that creating a framework out of
which this coherent voice might come will not be an easy or uncontested
process either globally or nationally. But just because it will be difficult
doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done. For we CS in Canada, the pay-off
could be significant as it would give us a voice and access to (the Federal)
government as it develops its OGD policies and equally as it evolves its
structures in response to the opportunities and risks that OGD presents.

Given the very non or even "anti" "Open" policies of the current Federal
government this "access" and legitimized/formal platform for comment and
consultation is a not inconsiderable opportunity.

On casual observation there are a number of streams (dare I say silos)
currently in Canadian CS with an interest in Open Government Data--the folks
around the civicaccess list, the very powerful and significant municipal
data movement (and its champion the CCSD), the FOI folks, the open
app/hackathon community, the community access community (Telecommunities
Canada and others), the open democracy group and I'm sure I've missed many
others and of course there are overlaps and double counting among all of
these.

I think it is not too early to be beginning a process of discussion among
all of these groups in anticipation of the next meeting of the OGP which
will be in London next year (I'm not sure if a date has been established).
However, whatever that date, Canadian OGD CS has a number of
tasks/opportunities in anticipation of that meeting including
        1. developing a means to monitor and assess the commitments made by
the Canadian government to the OGP in Brasilia
        2. undertaking that monitoring and developing a means for reporting
back on that monitoring
        3. developing a common framework for Canadian CS in participating in
the OGP meetings both nationally and internationally
        4. and others such as for example developing a Canadian OGP
declaration to match the global OGP declaration

Perhaps others might want to comment on this note.  

If there is sufficient interest it might be useful to develop a separate
electronic space (e-list?) for carrying this discussion forward or perhaps
the civicaccess list is the proper venue for the discussion in which case
others with an interest might wish to join the list.

Comments, discussion etc.etc.

Mike Gurstein
(here speaking in a personal capacity and as a Board Member of
Telecommunities Canada)

[James McKinney]

I think for now these discussions are happening on this list https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/ogp-civil-society

Once the timelines become clearer, there can certainly be a Canada-specific list to avoid flooding the main OGP Civil Society group.

In the meantime, we need to wait and see what the government does. It's too early to start evaluating them on their commitments, since they've only just made them.

On 2012-05-09, at 1:48 PM, michael gurstein wrote:

I had the privilege of attending the Inaugural meeting of the Open
Government Partnership in Brasilia in April as a researcher but in addition
I was asked to contribute (participate on a panel) as a member of Civil
Society.

Among many observations that I came away with from the meeting were several
concerning Civil Society and specifically the very significant role that
Civil Society is being expected play in the on-going OGP, and the consequent
need for CS in this sector to become effectively organized and structured at
both the national and the global levels.  Since the intention is that the
OGP is a "member" organization, with a requirement on governments to ensure
participation in all aspects of their OGD planning and implementation there
is very considerable pressure for national civil societies to organize
themselves into some sort of coherent body i.e. a body that is capable of
acting as an effective interlocutor with government -- not necessarily
speaking with one voice but at least being able to formulate a coherent
response/intervention to government initiatives.

It is already clear from the lead up to the Brasilia meeting, the meeting
itself and the fall-out from the meeting that creating a framework out of
which this coherent voice might come will not be an easy or uncontested
process either globally or nationally. But just because it will be difficult
doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done. For we CS in Canada, the pay-off
could be significant as it would give us a voice and access to (the Federal)
government as it develops its OGD policies and equally as it evolves its
structures in response to the opportunities and risks that OGD presents.

Given the very non or even "anti" "Open" policies of the current Federal
government this "access" and legitimized/formal platform for comment and
consultation is a not inconsiderable opportunity.

On casual observation there are a number of streams (dare I say silos)
currently in Canadian CS with an interest in Open Government Data--the folks
around the civicaccess list, the very powerful and significant municipal
data movement (and its champion the CCSD), the FOI folks, the open
app/hackathon community, the community access community (Telecommunities
Canada and others), the open democracy group and I'm sure I've missed many
others and of course there are overlaps and double counting among all of
these.

I think it is not too early to be beginning a process of discussion among
all of these groups in anticipation of the next meeting of the OGP which
will be in London next year (I'm not sure if a date has been established).
However, whatever that date, Canadian OGD CS has a number of
tasks/opportunities in anticipation of that meeting including
1. developing a means to monitor and assess the commitments made by
the Canadian government to the OGP in Brasilia
2. undertaking that monitoring and developing a means for reporting
back on that monitoring
3. developing a common framework for Canadian CS in participating in
the OGP meetings both nationally and internationally
4. and others such as for example developing a Canadian OGP
declaration to match the global OGP declaration

Perhaps others might want to comment on this note.  

If there is sufficient interest it might be useful to develop a separate
electronic space (e-list?) for carrying this discussion forward or perhaps
the civicaccess list is the proper venue for the discussion in which case
others with an interest might wish to join the list.

Comments, discussion etc.etc.

Mike Gurstein
(here speaking in a personal capacity and as a Board Member of
Telecommunities Canada)

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

[michael gurstein]

Hi James,

 

I have a feeling that it might be a good idea for a broad coalition of those with an interest in discussing these areas to begin discussions well in advance of the time for undertaking these evaluations if only to find common ground on which to conduct such evaluations. At least that seems to be the case among several of the groups/individuals I've mentioned this to outside of those for example, represented on this list.

 

M

 

 -----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of James McKinney
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:12 PM
To: civicaccess discuss
Cc: [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Open Government Partnership and CanadianCivil Society

I think for now these discussions are happening on this list https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/ogp-civil-society

Once the timelines become clearer, there can certainly be a Canada-specific list to avoid flooding the main OGP Civil Society group.

In the meantime, we need to wait and see what the government does. It's too early to start evaluating them on their commitments, since they've only just made them.

On 2012-05-09, at 1:48 PM, michael gurstein wrote:

I had the privilege of attending the Inaugural meeting of the Open
Government Partnership in Brasilia in April as a researcher but in addition
I was asked to contribute (participate on a panel) as a member of Civil
Society.

Among many observations that I came away with from the meeting were several
concerning Civil Society and specifically the very significant role that
Civil Society is being expected play in the on-going OGP, and the consequent
need for CS in this sector to become effectively organized and structured at
both the national and the global levels.  Since the intention is that the
OGP is a "member" organization, with a requirement on governments to ensure
participation in all aspects of their OGD planning and implementation there
is very considerable pressure for national civil societies to organize
themselves into some sort of coherent body i.e. a body that is capable of
acting as an effective interlocutor with government -- not necessarily
speaking with one voice but at least being able to formulate a coherent
response/intervention to government initiatives.

It is already clear from the lead up to the Brasilia meeting, the meeting
itself and the fall-out from the meeting that creating a framework out of
which this coherent voice might come will not be an easy or uncontested
process either globally or nationally. But just because it will be difficult
doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done. For we CS in Canada, the pay-off
could be significant as it would give us a voice and access to (the Federal)
government as it develops its OGD policies and equally as it evolves its
structures in response to the opportunities and risks that OGD presents.

Given the very non or even "anti" "Open" policies of the current Federal
government this "access" and legitimized/formal platform for comment and
consultation is a not inconsiderable opportunity.

On casual observation there are a number of streams (dare I say silos)
currently in Canadian CS with an interest in Open Government Data--the folks
around the civicaccess list, the very powerful and significant municipal
data movement (and its champion the CCSD), the FOI folks, the open
app/hackathon community, the community access community (Telecommunities
Canada and others), the open democracy group and I'm sure I've missed many
others and of course there are overlaps and double counting among all of
these.

I think it is not too early to be beginning a process of discussion among
all of these groups in anticipation of the next meeting of the OGP which
will be in London next year (I'm not sure if a date has been established).
However, whatever that date, Canadian OGD CS has a number of
tasks/opportunities in anticipation of that meeting including
1. developing a means to monitor and assess the commitments made by
the Canadian government to the OGP in Brasilia
2. undertaking that monitoring and developing a means for reporting
back on that monitoring
3. developing a common framework for Canadian CS in participating in
the OGP meetings both nationally and internationally
4. and others such as for example developing a Canadian OGP
declaration to match the global OGP declaration

Perhaps others might want to comment on this note.  

If there is sufficient interest it might be useful to develop a separate
electronic space (e-list?) for carrying this discussion forward or perhaps
the civicaccess list is the proper venue for the discussion in which case
others with an interest might wish to join the list.

Comments, discussion etc.etc.

Mike Gurstein
(here speaking in a personal capacity and as a Board Member of
Telecommunities Canada)

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

[James McKinney-2]

In that case, to answer your earlier question, I suppose others on this list should chime in as to whether or not civicaccess should host these discussions. For my part, I think it makes sense to start a new list.

On 2012-05-10, at 7:38 AM, michael gurstein wrote:

Hi James,

 

I have a feeling that it might be a good idea for a broad coalition of those with an interest in discussing these areas to begin discussions well in advance of the time for undertaking these evaluations if only to find common ground on which to conduct such evaluations. At least that seems to be the case among several of the groups/individuals I've mentioned this to outside of those for example, represented on this list.

 

M

 

 -----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of James McKinney
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:12 PM
To: civicaccess discuss
Cc: [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Open Government Partnership and CanadianCivil Society

I think for now these discussions are happening on this list https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/ogp-civil-society

Once the timelines become clearer, there can certainly be a Canada-specific list to avoid flooding the main OGP Civil Society group.

In the meantime, we need to wait and see what the government does. It's too early to start evaluating them on their commitments, since they've only just made them.

On 2012-05-09, at 1:48 PM, michael gurstein wrote:

I had the privilege of attending the Inaugural meeting of the Open
Government Partnership in Brasilia in April as a researcher but in addition
I was asked to contribute (participate on a panel) as a member of Civil
Society.

Among many observations that I came away with from the meeting were several
concerning Civil Society and specifically the very significant role that
Civil Society is being expected play in the on-going OGP, and the consequent
need for CS in this sector to become effectively organized and structured at
both the national and the global levels.  Since the intention is that the
OGP is a "member" organization, with a requirement on governments to ensure
participation in all aspects of their OGD planning and implementation there
is very considerable pressure for national civil societies to organize
themselves into some sort of coherent body i.e. a body that is capable of
acting as an effective interlocutor with government -- not necessarily
speaking with one voice but at least being able to formulate a coherent
response/intervention to government initiatives.

It is already clear from the lead up to the Brasilia meeting, the meeting
itself and the fall-out from the meeting that creating a framework out of
which this coherent voice might come will not be an easy or uncontested
process either globally or nationally. But just because it will be difficult
doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done. For we CS in Canada, the pay-off
could be significant as it would give us a voice and access to (the Federal)
government as it develops its OGD policies and equally as it evolves its
structures in response to the opportunities and risks that OGD presents.

Given the very non or even "anti" "Open" policies of the current Federal
government this "access" and legitimized/formal platform for comment and
consultation is a not inconsiderable opportunity.

On casual observation there are a number of streams (dare I say silos)
currently in Canadian CS with an interest in Open Government Data--the folks
around the civicaccess list, the very powerful and significant municipal
data movement (and its champion the CCSD), the FOI folks, the open
app/hackathon community, the community access community (Telecommunities
Canada and others), the open democracy group and I'm sure I've missed many
others and of course there are overlaps and double counting among all of
these.

I think it is not too early to be beginning a process of discussion among
all of these groups in anticipation of the next meeting of the OGP which
will be in London next year (I'm not sure if a date has been established).
However, whatever that date, Canadian OGD CS has a number of
tasks/opportunities in anticipation of that meeting including
1. developing a means to monitor and assess the commitments made by
the Canadian government to the OGP in Brasilia
2. undertaking that monitoring and developing a means for reporting
back on that monitoring
3. developing a common framework for Canadian CS in participating in
the OGP meetings both nationally and internationally
4. and others such as for example developing a Canadian OGP
declaration to match the global OGP declaration

Perhaps others might want to comment on this note.  

If there is sufficient interest it might be useful to develop a separate
electronic space (e-list?) for carrying this discussion forward or perhaps
the civicaccess list is the proper venue for the discussion in which case
others with an interest might wish to join the list.

Comments, discussion etc.etc.

Mike Gurstein
(here speaking in a personal capacity and as a Board Member of
Telecommunities Canada)

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

[Glen Newton]

I agree with James: announce the new list on this list and people on
this list who want to participate can subscribe to that list.
Otherwise this list becomes too broad / diluted.

Occasional, relevant, well-behaved cross-posting welcome. :-)

-Glen

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 11:25 AM, James McKinney <[hidden email]> wrote:

> In that case, to answer your earlier question, I suppose others on this list
> should chime in as to whether or not civicaccess should host these
> discussions. For my part, I think it makes sense to start a new list.
>
> On 2012-05-10, at 7:38 AM, michael gurstein wrote:
>
> Hi James,
>
> I have a feeling that it might be a good idea for a broad coalition of those
> with an interest in discussing these areas to begin discussions well in
> advance of the time for undertaking these evaluations if only to find common
> ground on which to conduct such evaluations. At least that seems to be the
> case among several of the groups/individuals I've mentioned this to outside
> of those for example, represented on this list.
>
> M
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of James
> McKinney
> Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:12 PM
> To: civicaccess discuss
> Cc: [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Open Government Partnership and
> CanadianCivil Society
>
> I think for now these discussions are happening on this
> list https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/ogp-civil-society
>
> Once the timelines become clearer, there can certainly be a Canada-specific
> list to avoid flooding the main OGP Civil Society group.
>
> In the meantime, we need to wait and see what the government does. It's too
> early to start evaluating them on their commitments, since they've only just
> made them.
>
> On 2012-05-09, at 1:48 PM, michael gurstein wrote:
>
>
> I had the privilege of attending the Inaugural meeting of the Open
> Government Partnership in Brasilia in April as a researcher but in addition
> I was asked to contribute (participate on a panel) as a member of Civil
> Society.
>
> Among many observations that I came away with from the meeting were several
> concerning Civil Society and specifically the very significant role that
> Civil Society is being expected play in the on-going OGP, and the consequent
> need for CS in this sector to become effectively organized and structured at
> both the national and the global levels.  Since the intention is that the
> OGP is a "member" organization, with a requirement on governments to ensure
> participation in all aspects of their OGD planning and implementation there
> is very considerable pressure for national civil societies to organize
> themselves into some sort of coherent body i.e. a body that is capable of
> acting as an effective interlocutor with government -- not necessarily
> speaking with one voice but at least being able to formulate a coherent
> response/intervention to government initiatives.
>
> It is already clear from the lead up to the Brasilia meeting, the meeting
> itself and the fall-out from the meeting that creating a framework out of
> which this coherent voice might come will not be an easy or uncontested
> process either globally or nationally. But just because it will be difficult
> doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done. For we CS in Canada, the pay-off
> could be significant as it would give us a voice and access to (the Federal)
> government as it develops its OGD policies and equally as it evolves its
> structures in response to the opportunities and risks that OGD presents.
>
> Given the very non or even "anti" "Open" policies of the current Federal
> government this "access" and legitimized/formal platform for comment and
> consultation is a not inconsiderable opportunity.
>
> On casual observation there are a number of streams (dare I say silos)
> currently in Canadian CS with an interest in Open Government Data--the folks
> around the civicaccess list, the very powerful and significant municipal
> data movement (and its champion the CCSD), the FOI folks, the open
> app/hackathon community, the community access community (Telecommunities
> Canada and others), the open democracy group and I'm sure I've missed many
> others and of course there are overlaps and double counting among all of
> these.
>
> I think it is not too early to be beginning a process of discussion among
> all of these groups in anticipation of the next meeting of the OGP which
> will be in London next year (I'm not sure if a date has been established).
> However, whatever that date, Canadian OGD CS has a number of
> tasks/opportunities in anticipation of that meeting including
> 1. developing a means to monitor and assess the commitments made by
> the Canadian government to the OGP in Brasilia
> 2. undertaking that monitoring and developing a means for reporting
> back on that monitoring
> 3. developing a common framework for Canadian CS in participating in
> the OGP meetings both nationally and internationally
> 4. and others such as for example developing a Canadian OGP
> declaration to match the global OGP declaration
>
> Perhaps others might want to comment on this note.
>
> If there is sufficient interest it might be useful to develop a separate
> electronic space (e-list?) for carrying this discussion forward or perhaps
> the civicaccess list is the proper venue for the discussion in which case
> others with an interest might wish to join the list.
>
> Comments, discussion etc.etc.
>
> Mike Gurstein
> (here speaking in a personal capacity and as a Board Member of
> Telecommunities Canada)
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

--
-
http://zzzoot.blogspot.com/
-

[Tracey P. Lauriault]

I agree that I do not want to focus on OGP,  but there are discussions about transparency, accountability, access and FOI which are incredibly relevant to this list as is our the TBS Open Government Strategies, the Digital Strategy and the Research Data Strategies and I would hate to see that leave and see communities divided.  We also have some serious science and data issues here with many of our agencies closing shop, reducing services, collecting less, and under the control of communications offices.

Civicaccess.ca "is a group of citizens which believes that all levels of government should make civic information and data accessible at no cost in open formats to their citizens. We believe this is necessary to allow citizens to fully participate in the democratic process of Canada's knowledge based economy"

The calibre of civicaccess.ca participants in those conversations to date have been excellent and can be broadened without going into the particulars of OGP, which I think is important, but not as important as our localized, provincial, territorial and national work. 

There is also probably some merit in informing the open data cities, both city/municipality and the citizens open data groups across the country about civicaccess.ca and the provincial groups and also including more french in the list car nous avons plusieurs amis aux Québec qui font du très beau travail.  This we have not done well.

However, this list was founded in 2005 when there were no newspaper articles about open data, and only a couple of bloggers, datalibre.ca being one of the first dedicated blogs, now there are articles and blog posts occurring daily and big provincial announcements and political platforms discussing the issue and hackfests and app contests etc.  Not bad work for a bunch of non organized people on a list!

The intent of civicaccess.ca was always to have citizens from law, libraries, geeks, apps developers, community groups, involved in a variety of areas from tech to policy to metadata to politics etc.

There was a conference not long ago regarding an OKNF Canada, and it was decided to not have a separate list precisely because we do not have that large a population and because we are still an emerging community of engaged citizens.  Also because Canada had done so much without and overarching organization.  We did say we could benefit from coordination and meeting face to face but that would not come easy as resources are scarce and there was talk about a conference which would enable the Canadian scene to come together, and I think that is more important now than ever.  That would be an opportunity for the different groups to meet and from there a Canadian Civil Society perspective could emerge.

We do not know yet what role CCSD would like to take, we are waiting to hear back from their director, I have my Phd Exam in 2 weeks and Harvey has been swamped at work so we could not do it all right way, so we are slower than we would like.  My guess is they will remain with the social and community based sector as that is where their expertise lies, but now, that sector has a voice and has to figure out how to join this discussion.

The OGP demonstrated that there is some space to be more formal, while concurrently we are already seeing that with OpenNorth and the cities & provinces coming on board, and an organization like CCSD getting involved, and the bridging work ongoing with Law, but we have lots of work to do with community based organizations, journalism, research and so on, and I would hate to see the energy, enthusiasm dissipate and see divergence instead of convergence.

I would opt to broaden the conversation and community here without having to get into the politics of OGP.  We should be leading what we want this space to look like and not letting and outside event direct our efforts, we can shape our Canadian view, and I think we can best do that here and even better if a conference occurs, and I understand that is in the works.  A handful of people met for the first time in Brazil, Harvey Low and Michael Gurstein got their first taste of what this space means, however, the people on civicaccess.ca have been shaping that conversation for some time, and have been part of Canadian successes without the OGP and a framework. 

It would however seem to be a good time for us to find a way to develop our own conversation and find a way to meet with intent, as opposed to a GovCamp, TransitCamp, or when our travel is covered and we can arrange meet our local friends.  And I would love to have that conversation with the people on this list in a deeper way and even better if we could actually meet.

Cheers
Tracey

http://civicaccess.ca/
http://datalibre.ca/

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 11:44 AM, Glen Newton <[hidden email]> wrote:

I agree with James: announce the new list on this list and people on
this list who want to participate can subscribe to that list.
Otherwise this list becomes too broad / diluted.

Occasional, relevant, well-behaved cross-posting welcome. :-)

-Glen

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 11:25 AM, James McKinney <[hidden email]> wrote:
> In that case, to answer your earlier question, I suppose others on this list
> should chime in as to whether or not civicaccess should host these
> discussions. For my part, I think it makes sense to start a new list.
>
> On 2012-05-10, at 7:38 AM, michael gurstein wrote:
>
> Hi James,
>
> I have a feeling that it might be a good idea for a broad coalition of those
> with an interest in discussing these areas to begin discussions well in
> advance of the time for undertaking these evaluations if only to find common
> ground on which to conduct such evaluations. At least that seems to be the
> case among several of the groups/individuals I've mentioned this to outside
> of those for example, represented on this list.
>
> M
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of James
> McKinney
> Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:12 PM
> To: civicaccess discuss
> Cc: [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Open Government Partnership and
> CanadianCivil Society
>
> I think for now these discussions are happening on this
> list https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/ogp-civil-society
>
> Once the timelines become clearer, there can certainly be a Canada-specific
> list to avoid flooding the main OGP Civil Society group.
>
> In the meantime, we need to wait and see what the government does. It's too
> early to start evaluating them on their commitments, since they've only just
> made them.
>
> On 2012-05-09, at 1:48 PM, michael gurstein wrote:
>
>
> I had the privilege of attending the Inaugural meeting of the Open
> Government Partnership in Brasilia in April as a researcher but in addition
> I was asked to contribute (participate on a panel) as a member of Civil
> Society.
>
> Among many observations that I came away with from the meeting were several
> concerning Civil Society and specifically the very significant role that
> Civil Society is being expected play in the on-going OGP, and the consequent
> need for CS in this sector to become effectively organized and structured at
> both the national and the global levels.  Since the intention is that the
> OGP is a "member" organization, with a requirement on governments to ensure
> participation in all aspects of their OGD planning and implementation there
> is very considerable pressure for national civil societies to organize
> themselves into some sort of coherent body i.e. a body that is capable of
> acting as an effective interlocutor with government -- not necessarily
> speaking with one voice but at least being able to formulate a coherent
> response/intervention to government initiatives.
>
> It is already clear from the lead up to the Brasilia meeting, the meeting
> itself and the fall-out from the meeting that creating a framework out of
> which this coherent voice might come will not be an easy or uncontested
> process either globally or nationally. But just because it will be difficult
> doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done. For we CS in Canada, the pay-off
> could be significant as it would give us a voice and access to (the Federal)
> government as it develops its OGD policies and equally as it evolves its
> structures in response to the opportunities and risks that OGD presents.
>
> Given the very non or even "anti" "Open" policies of the current Federal
> government this "access" and legitimized/formal platform for comment and
> consultation is a not inconsiderable opportunity.
>
> On casual observation there are a number of streams (dare I say silos)
> currently in Canadian CS with an interest in Open Government Data--the folks
> around the civicaccess list, the very powerful and significant municipal
> data movement (and its champion the CCSD), the FOI folks, the open
> app/hackathon community, the community access community (Telecommunities
> Canada and others), the open democracy group and I'm sure I've missed many
> others and of course there are overlaps and double counting among all of
> these.
>
> I think it is not too early to be beginning a process of discussion among
> all of these groups in anticipation of the next meeting of the OGP which
> will be in London next year (I'm not sure if a date has been established).
> However, whatever that date, Canadian OGD CS has a number of
> tasks/opportunities in anticipation of that meeting including
> 1. developing a means to monitor and assess the commitments made by
> the Canadian government to the OGP in Brasilia
> 2. undertaking that monitoring and developing a means for reporting
> back on that monitoring
> 3. developing a common framework for Canadian CS in participating in
> the OGP meetings both nationally and internationally
> 4. and others such as for example developing a Canadian OGP
> declaration to match the global OGP declaration
>
> Perhaps others might want to comment on this note.
>
> If there is sufficient interest it might be useful to develop a separate
> electronic space (e-list?) for carrying this discussion forward or perhaps
> the civicaccess list is the proper venue for the discussion in which case
> others with an interest might wish to join the list.
>
> Comments, discussion etc.etc.
>
> Mike Gurstein
> (here speaking in a personal capacity and as a Board Member of
> Telecommunities Canada)
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

--
-
http://zzzoot.blogspot.com/

-
_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

--

Tracey P. Lauriault
613-234-2805
 

[Harvey Low]

Having now had the honour of  being a representative of Canadian Civil Society at OGP, I will discuss my ongoing role with respect to OGP with CCSD next week. Regardless of the outcome of that discussion, I will nonetheless add these perspectives to my "day job" file.

As per my previous comments, I feel that the municipal sector now needs to work even more closely on these complex issues as articulated by Tracey with broader civil society and the specific communities of practice. Arguably, cities are now collaborating more than ever between each other on for examle, socio-economic research (eg FCM Quality of life reporting, CCSD data program, Ontario Benchmarking), but we need more connections to civil society on issues from foi to technology in my opinion (and not overly focus on technology in favour of relevant data etc). We have not been traditionally at the table of these discussions in any huge way and my discussions at ogp now seem to substantiate the need! The Feds certainly welcome a sub-national lens in their Action plan as example.

I have been working in the municipal sector in the area of urban planning and social research for 25 years now - much of that time meeting information requests from community, creating core data resources such as standardized streetnetwork files, GIS spatial conversion files, and community resources such as 211. I also was one of the municipal leads on the response to the long form Census issue (working closely with datalibra as well). - note, "yes" there was very very active census discussions and reports happening and not just in one area of civil society (we just don't trumpet our work broadly). All these initiatives have involved "data" within the context of public service delivery and social policy.

Subsequently, with all the lessons and perspectives learned at ogp, I will be tabling an agenda item for  discussion on such issues at the next Federation of Canadian Municipalities Quality of Life meeting in two weeks here in Toronto, as well as with CCSD. I am also at the gov20 session hosted by Citizenbridge next week! I am also (as part of my role on the City of Toronto's Open Gov Committee) going to integrate these learnings from all of you and Ogp to hopefully further our efforts at open gov locally here in Toronto. These are my "to dos".

Thanks again to all those on civicaccess and in the community-based human sevices sector for all your input and support! Also thanks Tracey for your long time expertise in this area!  
-----Original Message-----
From: "Tracey P. Lauriault" <[hidden email]>
To: civicaccess discuss <[hidden email]>

Sent: 05/10/2012 12:47:05 PM
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Open Government Partnership and CanadianCivil Society

I agree that I do not want to focus on OGP,  but there are discussions
about transparency, accountability, access and FOI which are incredibly
relevant to this list as is our the TBS Open Government Strategies, the
Digital Strategy and the Research Data Strategies and I would hate to see
that leave and see communities divided.  We also have some serious science
and data issues here with many of our agencies closing shop, reducing
services, collecting less, and under the control of communications offices.

Civicaccess.ca "is a group of citizens which believes that all levels of
government should make civic information and data accessible at no cost in
open formats to their citizens. We believe this is necessary to allow
citizens to fully participate in the democratic process of Canada's
knowledge based economy"

The calibre of civicaccess.ca participants in those conversations to date
have been excellent and can be broadened without going into the particulars
of OGP, which I think is important, but not as important as our localized,
provincial, territorial and national work.

There is also probably some merit in informing the open data cities, both
city/municipality and the citizens open data groups across the country
about civicaccess.ca and the provincial groups and also including more
french in the list car nous avons plusieurs amis aux Québec qui font du
très beau travail.  This we have not done well.

However, this list was founded in 2005 when there were no newspaper
articles about open data, and only a couple of bloggers, datalibre.ca being
one of the first dedicated blogs, now there are articles and blog posts
occurring daily and big provincial announcements and political platforms
discussing the issue and hackfests and app contests etc.  Not bad work for
a bunch of non organized people on a list!

The intent of civicaccess.ca was always to have citizens from law,
libraries, geeks, apps developers, community groups, involved in a variety
of areas from tech to policy to metadata to politics etc.

There was a conference not long ago regarding an OKNF Canada, and it was
decided to not have a separate list precisely because we do not have that
large a population and because we are still an emerging community of
engaged citizens.  Also because Canada had done so much without and
overarching organization.  We did say we could benefit from coordination
and meeting face to face but that would not come easy as resources are
scarce and there was talk about a conference which would enable the
Canadian scene to come together, and I think that is more important now
than ever.  That would be an opportunity for the different groups to meet
and from there a Canadian Civil Society perspective could emerge.

We do not know yet what role CCSD would like to take, we are waiting to
hear back from their director, I have my Phd Exam in 2 weeks and Harvey has
been swamped at work so we could not do it all right way, so we are slower
than we would like.  My guess is they will remain with the social and
community based sector as that is where their expertise lies, but now, that
sector has a voice and has to figure out how to join this discussion.

The OGP demonstrated that there is some space to be more formal, while
concurrently we are already seeing that with OpenNorth and the cities &
provinces coming on board, and an organization like CCSD getting involved,
and the bridging work ongoing with Law, but we have lots of work to do with
community based organizations, journalism, research and so on, and I would
hate to see the energy, enthusiasm dissipate and see divergence instead of
convergence.

I would opt to broaden the conversation and community here without having
to get into the politics of OGP.  We should be leading what we want this
space to look like and not letting and outside event direct our efforts, we
can shape our Canadian view, and I think we can best do that here and even
better if a conference occurs, and I understand that is in the works.  A
handful of people met for the first time in Brazil, Harvey Low and Michael
Gurstein got their first taste of what this space means, however, the
people on civicaccess.ca have been shaping that conversation for some time,
and have been part of Canadian successes without the OGP and a framework.

It would however seem to be a good time for us to find a way to develop our
own conversation and find a way to meet with intent, as opposed to a
GovCamp, TransitCamp, or when our travel is covered and we can arrange meet
our local friends.  And I would love to have that conversation with the
people on this list in a deeper way and even better if we could actually
meet.

Cheers
Tracey

http://civicaccess.ca/
http://datalibre.ca/

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 11:44 AM, Glen Newton <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I agree with James: announce the new list on this list and people on
> this list who want to participate can subscribe to that list.
> Otherwise this list becomes too broad / diluted.
>
> Occasional, relevant, well-behaved cross-posting welcome. :-)
>
> -Glen
>
> On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 11:25 AM, James McKinney <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > In that case, to answer your earlier question, I suppose others on this
> list
> > should chime in as to whether or not civicaccess should host these
> > discussions. For my part, I think it makes sense to start a new list.
> >
> > On 2012-05-10, at 7:38 AM, michael gurstein wrote:
> >
> > Hi James,
> >
> > I have a feeling that it might be a good idea for a broad coalition of
> those
> > with an interest in discussing these areas to begin discussions well in
> > advance of the time for undertaking these evaluations if only to find
> common
> > ground on which to conduct such evaluations. At least that seems to be
> the
> > case among several of the groups/individuals I've mentioned this to
> outside
> > of those for example, represented on this list.
> >
> > M
> >
> >  -----Original Message-----
> > From: [hidden email]
> > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of James
> > McKinney
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:12 PM
> > To: civicaccess discuss
> > Cc: [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Open Government Partnership and
> > CanadianCivil Society
> >
> > I think for now these discussions are happening on this
> > list
> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/ogp-civil-society
> >
> > Once the timelines become clearer, there can certainly be a
> Canada-specific
> > list to avoid flooding the main OGP Civil Society group.
> >
> > In the meantime, we need to wait and see what the government does. It's
> too
> > early to start evaluating them on their commitments, since they've only
> just
> > made them.
> >
> > On 2012-05-09, at 1:48 PM, michael gurstein wrote:
> >
> >
> > I had the privilege of attending the Inaugural meeting of the Open
> > Government Partnership in Brasilia in April as a researcher but in
> addition
> > I was asked to contribute (participate on a panel) as a member of Civil
> > Society.
> >
> > Among many observations that I came away with from the meeting were
> several
> > concerning Civil Society and specifically the very significant role that
> > Civil Society is being expected play in the on-going OGP, and the
> consequent
> > need for CS in this sector to become effectively organized and
> structured at
> > both the national and the global levels.  Since the intention is that the
> > OGP is a "member" organization, with a requirement on governments to
> ensure
> > participation in all aspects of their OGD planning and implementation
> there
> > is very considerable pressure for national civil societies to organize
> > themselves into some sort of coherent body i.e. a body that is capable of
> > acting as an effective interlocutor with government -- not necessarily
> > speaking with one voice but at least being able to formulate a coherent
> > response/intervention to government initiatives.
> >
> > It is already clear from the lead up to the Brasilia meeting, the meeting
> > itself and the fall-out from the meeting that creating a framework out of
> > which this coherent voice might come will not be an easy or uncontested
> > process either globally or nationally. But just because it will be
> difficult
> > doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done. For we CS in Canada, the pay-off
> > could be significant as it would give us a voice and access to (the
> Federal)
> > government as it develops its OGD policies and equally as it evolves its
> > structures in response to the opportunities and risks that OGD presents.
> >
> > Given the very non or even "anti" "Open" policies of the current Federal
> > government this "access" and legitimized/formal platform for comment and
> > consultation is a not inconsiderable opportunity.
> >
> > On casual observation there are a number of streams (dare I say silos)
> > currently in Canadian CS with an interest in Open Government Data--the
> folks
> > around the civicaccess list, the very powerful and significant municipal
> > data movement (and its champion the CCSD), the FOI folks, the open
> > app/hackathon community, the community access community (Telecommunities
> > Canada and others), the open democracy group and I'm sure I've missed
> many
> > others and of course there are overlaps and double counting among all of
> > these.
> >
> > I think it is not too early to be beginning a process of discussion among
> > all of these groups in anticipation of the next meeting of the OGP which
> > will be in London next year (I'm not sure if a date has been
> established).
> > However, whatever that date, Canadian OGD CS has a number of
> > tasks/opportunities in anticipation of that meeting including
> > 1. developing a means to monitor and assess the commitments made by
> > the Canadian government to the OGP in Brasilia
> > 2. undertaking that monitoring and developing a means for reporting
> > back on that monitoring
> > 3. developing a common framework for Canadian CS in participating in
> > the OGP meetings both nationally and internationally
> > 4. and others such as for example developing a Canadian OGP
> > declaration to match the global OGP declaration
> >
> > Perhaps others might want to comment on this note.
> >
> > If there is sufficient interest it might be useful to develop a separate
> > electronic space (e-list?) for carrying this discussion forward or
> perhaps
> > the civicaccess list is the proper venue for the discussion in which case
> > others with an interest might wish to join the list.
> >
> > Comments, discussion etc.etc.
> >
> > Mike Gurstein
> > (here speaking in a personal capacity and as a Board Member of
> > Telecommunities Canada)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
>
>
>
> --
> -
> http://zzzoot.blogspot.com/
> -
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
>

--
Tracey P. Lauriault
613-234-2805

[David Eaves]

I agree with with James and Glen - in relation to the OGP and
assessment, I would start a new list.

On 12-05-10 8:44 AM, Glen Newton wrote:

> I agree with James: announce the new list on this list and people on
> this list who want to participate can subscribe to that list.
> Otherwise this list becomes too broad / diluted.
>
> Occasional, relevant, well-behaved cross-posting welcome. :-)
>
> -Glen
>
> On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 11:25 AM, James McKinney<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> In that case, to answer your earlier question, I suppose others on this list
>> should chime in as to whether or not civicaccess should host these
>> discussions. For my part, I think it makes sense to start a new list.
>>
>> On 2012-05-10, at 7:38 AM, michael gurstein wrote:
>>
>> Hi James,
>>
>> I have a feeling that it might be a good idea for a broad coalition of those
>> with an interest in discussing these areas to begin discussions well in
>> advance of the time for undertaking these evaluations if only to find common
>> ground on which to conduct such evaluations. At least that seems to be the
>> case among several of the groups/individuals I've mentioned this to outside
>> of those for example, represented on this list.
>>
>> M
>>
>>   -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of James
>> McKinney
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:12 PM
>> To: civicaccess discuss
>> Cc: [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Open Government Partnership and
>> CanadianCivil Society
>>
>> I think for now these discussions are happening on this
>> list https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/ogp-civil-society
>>
>> Once the timelines become clearer, there can certainly be a Canada-specific
>> list to avoid flooding the main OGP Civil Society group.
>>
>> In the meantime, we need to wait and see what the government does. It's too
>> early to start evaluating them on their commitments, since they've only just
>> made them.
>>
>> On 2012-05-09, at 1:48 PM, michael gurstein wrote:
>>
>>
>> I had the privilege of attending the Inaugural meeting of the Open
>> Government Partnership in Brasilia in April as a researcher but in addition
>> I was asked to contribute (participate on a panel) as a member of Civil
>> Society.
>>
>> Among many observations that I came away with from the meeting were several
>> concerning Civil Society and specifically the very significant role that
>> Civil Society is being expected play in the on-going OGP, and the consequent
>> need for CS in this sector to become effectively organized and structured at
>> both the national and the global levels.  Since the intention is that the
>> OGP is a "member" organization, with a requirement on governments to ensure
>> participation in all aspects of their OGD planning and implementation there
>> is very considerable pressure for national civil societies to organize
>> themselves into some sort of coherent body i.e. a body that is capable of
>> acting as an effective interlocutor with government -- not necessarily
>> speaking with one voice but at least being able to formulate a coherent
>> response/intervention to government initiatives.
>>
>> It is already clear from the lead up to the Brasilia meeting, the meeting
>> itself and the fall-out from the meeting that creating a framework out of
>> which this coherent voice might come will not be an easy or uncontested
>> process either globally or nationally. But just because it will be difficult
>> doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done. For we CS in Canada, the pay-off
>> could be significant as it would give us a voice and access to (the Federal)
>> government as it develops its OGD policies and equally as it evolves its
>> structures in response to the opportunities and risks that OGD presents.
>>
>> Given the very non or even "anti" "Open" policies of the current Federal
>> government this "access" and legitimized/formal platform for comment and
>> consultation is a not inconsiderable opportunity.
>>
>> On casual observation there are a number of streams (dare I say silos)
>> currently in Canadian CS with an interest in Open Government Data--the folks
>> around the civicaccess list, the very powerful and significant municipal
>> data movement (and its champion the CCSD), the FOI folks, the open
>> app/hackathon community, the community access community (Telecommunities
>> Canada and others), the open democracy group and I'm sure I've missed many
>> others and of course there are overlaps and double counting among all of
>> these.
>>
>> I think it is not too early to be beginning a process of discussion among
>> all of these groups in anticipation of the next meeting of the OGP which
>> will be in London next year (I'm not sure if a date has been established).
>> However, whatever that date, Canadian OGD CS has a number of
>> tasks/opportunities in anticipation of that meeting including
>> 1. developing a means to monitor and assess the commitments made by
>> the Canadian government to the OGP in Brasilia
>> 2. undertaking that monitoring and developing a means for reporting
>> back on that monitoring
>> 3. developing a common framework for Canadian CS in participating in
>> the OGP meetings both nationally and internationally
>> 4. and others such as for example developing a Canadian OGP
>> declaration to match the global OGP declaration
>>
>> Perhaps others might want to comment on this note.
>>
>> If there is sufficient interest it might be useful to develop a separate
>> electronic space (e-list?) for carrying this discussion forward or perhaps
>> the civicaccess list is the proper venue for the discussion in which case
>> others with an interest might wish to join the list.
>>
>> Comments, discussion etc.etc.
>>
>> Mike Gurstein
>> (here speaking in a personal capacity and as a Board Member of
>> Telecommunities Canada)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
>
>

[Tracey P. Lauriault]

That makes sense James. 

Cheers
t

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 11:12 PM, James McKinney <[hidden email]> wrote:

I think for now these discussions are happening on this list https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/ogp-civil-society

Once the timelines become clearer, there can certainly be a Canada-specific list to avoid flooding the main OGP Civil Society group.

In the meantime, we need to wait and see what the government does. It's too early to start evaluating them on their commitments, since they've only just made them.

On 2012-05-09, at 1:48 PM, michael gurstein wrote:

I had the privilege of attending the Inaugural meeting of the Open
Government Partnership in Brasilia in April as a researcher but in addition
I was asked to contribute (participate on a panel) as a member of Civil
Society.

Among many observations that I came away with from the meeting were several
concerning Civil Society and specifically the very significant role that
Civil Society is being expected play in the on-going OGP, and the consequent
need for CS in this sector to become effectively organized and structured at
both the national and the global levels.  Since the intention is that the
OGP is a "member" organization, with a requirement on governments to ensure
participation in all aspects of their OGD planning and implementation there
is very considerable pressure for national civil societies to organize
themselves into some sort of coherent body i.e. a body that is capable of
acting as an effective interlocutor with government -- not necessarily
speaking with one voice but at least being able to formulate a coherent
response/intervention to government initiatives.

It is already clear from the lead up to the Brasilia meeting, the meeting
itself and the fall-out from the meeting that creating a framework out of
which this coherent voice might come will not be an easy or uncontested
process either globally or nationally. But just because it will be difficult
doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done. For we CS in Canada, the pay-off
could be significant as it would give us a voice and access to (the Federal)
government as it develops its OGD policies and equally as it evolves its
structures in response to the opportunities and risks that OGD presents.

Given the very non or even "anti" "Open" policies of the current Federal
government this "access" and legitimized/formal platform for comment and
consultation is a not inconsiderable opportunity.

On casual observation there are a number of streams (dare I say silos)
currently in Canadian CS with an interest in Open Government Data--the folks
around the civicaccess list, the very powerful and significant municipal
data movement (and its champion the CCSD), the FOI folks, the open
app/hackathon community, the community access community (Telecommunities
Canada and others), the open democracy group and I'm sure I've missed many
others and of course there are overlaps and double counting among all of
these.

I think it is not too early to be beginning a process of discussion among
all of these groups in anticipation of the next meeting of the OGP which
will be in London next year (I'm not sure if a date has been established).
However, whatever that date, Canadian OGD CS has a number of
tasks/opportunities in anticipation of that meeting including
1. developing a means to monitor and assess the commitments made by
the Canadian government to the OGP in Brasilia
2. undertaking that monitoring and developing a means for reporting
back on that monitoring
3. developing a common framework for Canadian CS in participating in
the OGP meetings both nationally and internationally
4. and others such as for example developing a Canadian OGP
declaration to match the global OGP declaration

Perhaps others might want to comment on this note.  

If there is sufficient interest it might be useful to develop a separate
electronic space (e-list?) for carrying this discussion forward or perhaps
the civicaccess list is the proper venue for the discussion in which case
others with an interest might wish to join the list.

Comments, discussion etc.etc.

Mike Gurstein
(here speaking in a personal capacity and as a Board Member of
Telecommunities Canada)

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

--

Tracey P. Lauriault
613-234-2805