NYTimes: Mapping America: Every City, Every Block
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Re: NYTimes: Mapping America: Every City, Every Block
 
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Re: NYTimes: Mapping America: Every City, Every Block
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On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Jennifer Bell <[hidden email]> wrote:
Surely the degree to which invariant attributes such as race/ethnicity (or 95% invariant factors such as gender) are predictors of the money you make -- and, obviously, they are! -- also reflects the health of the state and the social fabric supporting you.
"We should collect some information on certain fixed individual characteristics" does not imply "We should collect information on EVERY POTENTIALLY INTERESTING INDIVIDUAL CHARACTERISTIC." Clearly, your sequenced genome is rather more private information than your race. |
Re: NYTimes: Mapping America: Every City, Every Block
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All;
Remember these questions are formulated with the support of the community, particularly the communities in question. Also with the agencies that serve and represent them both on the government and non government side.
It is nice for some of us who are far away from these issues, do not do social research and are not involved on the front lines to muse aloud, in the end, it is up to those directly involved with this work, who work with these groups to direct the course of the Census and its questions, and specifically people from those communities. I urge you all to look at the composition of those who came out against to census (http://datalibre.ca/census-watch/) to assess the calibre and diversity of the organizations and assess for yourselves who are the question 19 supporters and again do look at the court case, Equal Right to be Counted to see who the partners are, they are question 19 people (http://socialplanningtoronto.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Save-the-CensusPR.pdf).
Jennifer, there are plenty of charter issues at work in our country, so there is no shortage of equality issues to be addressed. There are plenty of race, gender and ability issues that need to be worked on and these data are invaluable for those purposes.
On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 5:28 PM, Jennifer Bell <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- Tracey P. Lauriault 613-234-2805 |
Re: NYTimes: Mapping America: Every City, Every Block
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In reply to this post by Tracey P. Lauriault
The long-form won't come back. But many will spend precious time trying to revive the dead patient. I hope he can rest in peace.
The means now exist to aggregate data from around the country in a semi-bottom-up fashion. Arguably this would lead to richer, more detailed data than a nationally-adminstered census. I have not seen arguments that sufficiently demonstrate this to be a false claim. i recognize some circularity here. the tools (and hence daring) where not conceivable thus far in history. Add to the mix the eventual emergence of Open Data in Canada relating to Immigration and Border activity. This new era of stats aggregation will likely require: - a newly-founded national body/clearinghouse with one or two subsidiaries handling various tasks - ongoing guidance from statscan - outright buy-in from Fed. of Can. Municipalities then possibly: major school board networks, and public health officials - possible involvement by international player like Global Impact Investment Network, World Bank ----- http://www.thegiin.org/cgi-bin/iowa/home/index.html ------------- canada's solution might be another country's solution - a much more confident and ambitious (and well-funded) canadian civil society - changing mindsets from a belief that government must collect data (it was the only one who could!)... to: a new freely chosen posture that views the collection of data as civil society's responsibility: --> it is way too frequently argued that this data is "for making decisions about government policy" --> how is such data any less for the purposes of "civil society acting in strategic ways"? ------->> this posture comes about from a belief in the winnowing of the state (not to be mistaken with its privitization) and many rightfully feel the onset of this coming era, for it seemingly throws individuals and publics "back into the wild marked by self-organization" if you argue that the onus is on the government, you must support this claim vis-a-vis your view of civil society and its role in a changing Canada. i believe (political philosophy) that civil society should be greater and stronger than the government itself. but as a former colonial dependency our complexes about self-hood are more West or East African than European, if we'd admit it. disfunctional and distributed data collection might be too great of a task for us at this point. our numbers are low but some see that changing. http://globalbrief.ca/blog/2010/06/14/canada-%E2%80%93-population-100-million/ we can tell ourselves whatever story we want. "they're doing it to cut us off from knowledge". or "damn it's going to suck, but i guess it's time to move out of my parents basement and make it on my own". this is an opportunity, is it not? Morgen |
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In reply to this post by Jennifer Bell
>I think, in an open data world, it makes sense to be very choosy about
the facts that are tied to the permanent public record of our
identity...
This comment suggests that individual information from a census would be made available to all in a future Open Data universe. No one in the Open Data community that I have spoken to are advocating this. The aggregate information, freely available and unencumbered by restrictive licenses, is what is wanted. Personal and private information collected should not, and, in my understanding, cannot (given present Census and privacy legislation in Canada) be released in the Census. And Tracey, can you help me here: Is there a permanent record of an individual's Census replies kept by StatsCan? If so, for how long? Thanks, Glen On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 4:23 PM, Jennifer Bell <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- - |
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In reply to this post by Jennifer Bell
Jennifer;
The census questions that caused tension were the communiting questions and the questions on unpaid work, mostly because they were unexplained. The questions about race ect. have not caused official tension.
And it looks like the Tories have manufactured consent toward dissent toward the Census. There were only 100 official complaints about the Census prior to the Tories Cancelling it. See the Toronto Star Article I posted earlier.
On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 4:23 PM, Jennifer Bell <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- Tracey P. Lauriault 613-234-2805 |
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In reply to this post by Glen Newton
Glen;
92 years and only if you consent.
On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 8:59 PM, Glen Newton <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- Tracey P. Lauriault 613-234-2805 |
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In reply to this post by Morgen Peers
Morgen;
The science and the money are not with you. It is a nice idea though. A census however is not a street map and an official count does not happen randomly and you cannot tie money officially from such a process are there are so many ways to bias the count.
Please go back and read the issues related to official vs non official census. And comment from the science and not from speculation. It was speculation that got it cancelled.
We are still really active on advocating for the census. It is not a good idea to cancel it. Some like the conference board of Canada were happy to hear that the census was cancelled, because they can not capitalize on counting whom will make them money. Few will be counting the marginalized, aboriginal people, ethno cultural visible minorities, single mothers, people with disabilities or the poor, as well, Morgen there is not much of a business case to do so, but there is a place for the state to step in, and that what the state is supposed to do and I would not advocate that the state abdicate from the role of caring for the most vulnerable.
On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 7:50 PM, Morgen Peers <[hidden email]> wrote: The long-form won't come back. But many will spend precious time trying to revive the dead patient. I hope he can rest in peace. -- Tracey P. Lauriault 613-234-2805 |
Re: NYTimes: Mapping America: Every City, Every Block
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In reply to this post by Tracey P. Lauriault
a pretty good article from the summer on the census
http://afhimelfarb.wordpress.com/2010/07/28/oh-no-not-the-census-again/ |
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That is an excellent article.
Also, the blog post on this topic by Debra Thomson is pretty great to - http://datalibre.ca/2011/01/11/race-questions-and-the-census/
On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 10:21 PM, Morgen Peers <[hidden email]> wrote: a pretty good article from the summer on the census -- Tracey P. Lauriault 613-234-2805 |
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In reply to this post by Morgen Peers
> I have not seen arguments that sufficiently demonstrate this to be a false claim.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because you haven't heard the argument, doesn't mean the argument doesn't exist. In any case, a claims still needs its own supporting arguments - it is not enough for a claim to be unchallenged. |
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I have heard the argument.
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 1:50 AM, James McKinney <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- Tracey P. Lauriault 613-234-2805 |
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