FW: [IP] Fwd: Check out SMART Muni App for San Francisco Transit Goes Unused - NYTimes.com
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FW: [IP] Fwd: Check out SMART Muni App for San Francisco Transit Goes Unused - NYTimes.com
 
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More on the real world of civic
data...
M
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Date: Sunday, April 22, 2012 Subject: Check out SMART Muni App for San Francisco Transit Goes Unused - NYTimes.com To: [hidden email]
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Re: FW: [IP] Fwd: Check out SMART Muni App for San Francisco Transit Goes Unused - NYTimes.com
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Wow. I can't imagine a more misplaced comment. So Open Data allows a
bunch of developers to show the city that it could solve an internal
management problems for far, far less, but because government
procurement is badly broken and the city is broke, the city can't
capitalize... And somehow this is reflection on how bad open data
is?
Meanwhile, open data is a demonstrable success if SF transit with over 12 apps for the iPhone and 8 apps for android and over 1 in 7 San franciscans tap into the nextbus data every weekday. (The simplest of google searches would have allowed Michael to see this). And of course, the same data set in Seattle - OneBusAway offers real is used by commuters to plan 50,000 trips per week. Yes, "the real world of civic data" it really is a mess. All the citizens better served. It's a tragedy. Michael's ability to find a single data point and to make a sweeping statement like "the real world of civic data" never ceases to amaze me. On 12-04-22 11:30 AM, michael gurstein wrote:
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Re: FW: [IP] Fwd: Check out SMART Muni App for San Francisco Transit Goes Unused - NYTimes.com
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In reply to this post by michael gurstein
And all those people (SF city, SFMTA) are some of the most proactive
in the domain... (But not necessary the best funded...)
Added to the ability to match the gov slowness this raises 2 points: - The need of geeks and civic hackers to match the complex needs of gov. Although the smart app seems to be interesting, I'd be surprised to have such a solution used for real. MTA (New york) implemented something developped based on rugged and secured hardware. When I see Code for America, they do lots of interesting stuff, but it's difficult to tackle central issues for the govs. To me, Open311 and the ecosystem based on it is one of the good example: lot of work with govs, slower process, and something that lives for real now that is integrated by several gov oriented-CRMs. - Which brings the second point: the ability to have long-living products. It's still difficult to see how sustain the civic app ecosystem. Once again, it's around the 311 service that we can see interesting stuff with SeeClickFix which are able to leave for real. But in general, it's still a minority. Initiatives like CivicCommons could help focus on apps that work for govs. Steph Le 12-04-22 14:30, michael gurstein a écrit :
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Re: FW: [IP] Fwd: Check out SMART Muni App for San Francisco Transit Goes Unused - NYTimes.com
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Steph - what I think is actually interesting is that, in the transit
space, thanks to a common standard like GTFS, there actually are
several companies sustaining themselves because they can develop
apps that serve multiple cities so reap the benefits of scale. Also
why I totally agree with you around the Open311 standard. Slower,
but really helping cities rethink everything on this issue from
service levels to how they procure (and it's impact on the reduced
cost of these systems is maybe the most interesting - today much,
much smaller towns can afford 311 systems as a result, I think it is
going to make smaller governments much more effective and
efficient).
The number of companies is small, but the growth is pretty good - especially given how early on we are. So figuring out how we get more standards feels like a central challenge (as you point out) On 12-04-22 12:12 PM, Stéphane Guidoin wrote: And all those people (SF city, SFMTA) are some of the most proactive in the domain... (But not necessary the best funded...) |
Re: FW: [IP] Fwd: Check out SMART Muni App for San Francisco Transit Goes Unused - NYTimes.com
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In reply to this post by David Eaves
Woiw,
tempering enthusiasm with some cautions leads some folks to careen over
what one actually says... interesting...
I
didn't' actually mention "open data", David... I was talking about "civic data"
which from my knowledge and experience is rather complicated and subject to
issues like political and finanicial prioritizing, problems of internal
competition and ownership issues, institutional conservatism and so on and goes
way way beyond the immediate opportunities presented by "open
data".
I have
nothing against "open data", I think it is rather a good idea and would applaud
the apps that you point to below but would also suggest that helping the
commutes of a limited number of smart phone users in one (or two) of
the richest cities in one of the richest countries is one (fairly small) step
for mankind...
Best,
M
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Eaves Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 11:53 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] FW: [IP] Fwd: Check out SMART Muni App for San Francisco Transit Goes Unused - NYTimes.com Wow. I can't imagine a more misplaced comment. So Open Data allows a bunch of developers to show the city that it could solve an internal management problems for far, far less, but because government procurement is badly broken and the city is broke, the city can't capitalize... And somehow this is reflection on how bad open data is? |
Re: FW: [IP] Fwd: Check out SMART Muni App for San Francisco Transit Goes Unused - NYTimes.com
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Thank you for the clarification, Michael. Given the article was on
the failure to implement software and this is the civic-access list,
it might be helpful to give us more context when forwarding an
article around.
It's not clear to me what the link is to other countries. I haven't heard anyone calling for developing countries to pursue transit data - the emphasis there is more on budget accountability, aid, and natural resource payment data. Finally, as an access expert I'm sure you are aware that smart phone penetration rates in the US are actually higher among many groups such as Hispanics and African-Americans than the population at large, and that the rate of adoption among poorest Americans is the fastest. Best, Dave On 12-04-22 1:59 PM, michael gurstein wrote:
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Re: FW: [IP] Fwd: Check out SMART Muni App for San Francisco Transit Goes Unused - NYTimes.com
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Thanks
David, I'll be sure to remember your instructions the next time I'm thinking of
sharing something with your list.
M
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