Are books data?

[Tracey P. Lauriault]

Books are in and of themselves data for librarians, also English majors, and in the lab at Carleton, GCRC books get geotranscribed into maps.  movies are also data and we have a research stream called cinematographic research and geomarratives.

Books also contain qualitative data.

On Friday, September 13, 2013, wrote:

Send CivicAccess-discuss mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Public domain and wikisource (Peder Jakobsen)
   2. Re: Public domain and wikisource (Karl Dubost)
   3. Re: Public domain and wikisource (Karl Dubost)
   4. Re: Public domain and wikisource (Peder Jakobsen)
   5. Re: Public domain and wikisource (Glen Newton)
   6. Civic Data challenge (David Eaves)
   7. Re: Civic Data challenge (James McKinney)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 18:54:03 -0400
From: Peder Jakobsen <[hidden email]>
To: civicaccess discuss <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Public domain and wikisource
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

Are works of fiction Open Data?  I never read a book that was data, except the Yellow Pages.   Yes, many books reference data, but books are not data, meaning they cannot be turned into something new or more useful by machines, nor should they.   (Unless you are making a corpus for translation I suppose).

Or am I smoking funny bananas here??

Peder

On 2013-09-12, at 4:52 PM, Robert Tiessen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Michael Geist had two or three blog posts about a Canadian site that posted music scores that were in the public domain.  Despite the fact that what the site did was completely legal in Canada (life of the author plus 50 years), the site was eventually shut down.  The site couldn't afford to deal with harassing copyright infringement lawsuits from European music publishers.
>
> While I would like to see Canada develop its own website of books in the public domain, there are risks to a prominent site.
>
> Here is link to one of the blog posts:
>
> http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/5754/125/
>
> Robert Tiessen
> Librarian on a Research Leave
>
> University of Calgary Library
> [hidden email]
> 403.220.6043
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Karl Dubost
> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 6:40 AM
> To: civicaccess discuss
> Subject: [CivicAccess-discuss] Public domain and wikisource
>
> Hi,
>
> IANAL (I Am Not A Lawyer)
>
> Some authors I love are in the public domain in Canada (50 years after the death). Two examples are Camus and Bachelard. They are authors from France.
>
> Camus works are easily accessible at a Quebec university site http://classiques.uqac.ca/classiques/camus_albert/camus_albert.html
>
> Someone like Bachelard is impossible to find. So I was musing on helping to get it on wikisource. BUT wikisource has chosen to put a restriction on the author nationality for applying the public domain.
>
>> In Aide:Droit d'auteur - Wikisource
>> At https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Aide:Droit_d%E2%80%99auteur
>>
>> Domaine public : sont admissibles tous les textes qui ne sont plus
>> sous droit d'auteur en droit fran?ais ou qui ne sont plus sous droit
>> dans leur pays d'origine pour les auteurs francophones non fran?ais.
>
> I was wondering about two things then:
>
> 1. Is the public domain in a specific country constrained by the nationality of the author?
> 2. Should we have a wikisource-like in Canada, hosted in Canada, where authors dead more than 50 years ago could be easily accessible?
>
>
>
>
> --
> Karl Dubost
> http://www.la-grange.net/karl/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 18:58:21 -0400
From: Karl Dubost <[hidden email]>
To: civicaccess discuss <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Public domain and wikisource
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Robert Tiessen [2013-09-12T16:52]:
> The site couldn't afford to deal with harassing copyright infringement lawsuits from European music publishers.

UQAC had issues with Gallimard related to Camus. The agreement which has been found was to block based on IP location. (which can be easily bypass with a proxy, but that's another story).



--
Karl Dubost
http://www.la-grange.net/karl/

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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 19:05:17 -0400
From: Karl Dubost <[hidden email]>
To: civicaccess discuss <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Public domain and wikisource
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Peder Jakobsen [2013-09-12T18:54]:
> Are works of fiction Open Data?

Well. Yes they contain data that can be interpreted. There are a lot of things into them.
But if your comment is "Is it out of topic for this list?" Slightly. I'm abusing the fact that this community might have knowledge about it ;)


> but books are not data, meaning they cannot be turned into something new or more useful by machines, nor should they.

There's never a necessity, but always a possibility.

Movie: Jules et Jim
http://www.flickr.com/photos/densitydesign/3220157963/in/set-72157612908164228/

Shakespeare
http://www.understanding-shakespeare.com/


> Or am I smoking funny bananas here??

You are ;) but that's ok. Sometimes it might be good :)


--
Karl Dubost
http://www.la-grange.net/karl/

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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 19:13:41 -0400
From: Peder Jakobsen <[hidden email]>
To: civicaccess discuss <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Public domain and wikisource
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252



On 2013-09-12, at 7:05 PM, Karl Dubost <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Peder Jakobsen [2013-09-12T18:54]:
>> Are works of fiction Open Data?
>
> Well. Yes they contain data that can be interpreted. There are a lot of things into them.
> But if your comment is "Is it out of topic for this list?" Slightly. I'm abusing the fact that this community might have knowledge about it ;)
>
>
>> but books are not data, meaning they cannot be turned into something new or more useful by machines, nor should they.
>
> There's never a necessity, but always a possibility.
>
> Movie: Jules et Jim
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/densitydesign/3220157963/in/set-72157612908164228/
>
> Shakespeare
> http://www.understanding-shakespeare.com/

Interesting, thanks for sharing.
>
>
>> Or am I smoking funny bananas here??
>
> You are ;) but that's ok. Sometimes it might be good :)

Does that mean free porn is Open Data?   Or free parking?.?  Ok, I'll go easy on the bananas now  :p

>
>
> --
> Karl Dubost
> http://www.la-grange.net/karl/
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 19:42:57 -0400
From: Glen Newton <[hidden email]>
To: civicaccess discuss <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Public domain and wikisource
Message-ID:
        <CANL2-4PQfR=nzR1W4B0iwo-1BA8niAOHfVB3=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Books are text. Text is data.

I do research in natural language processing and treat all text
(including books) as data.
Here is an example of a research competition involving 50,000
digitized (out-of-copyright) books, ~70GB of text:
http://www.inex.otago.ac.nz/tracks/books/books.asp

My previous employment at the NRC involved working with the text of
~5.7 million _in_copyright_ scientific research articles, ~700GB of
text.

-Glen

On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 7:13 PM, Peder Jakobsen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> On 2013-09-12, at 7:05 PM, Karl Dubost <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Peder Jakobsen [2013-09-12T18:54]:
>>> Are works of fiction Open Data?
>>
>> Well. Yes they contain data that can be interpreted. There are a lot of things into them.
>> But if your comment is "Is it out of topic for this list?" Slightly. I'm abusing the fact that this community might have knowledge about it ;)
>>
>>
>>> but books are not data, meaning they cannot be turned into something new or more useful by machines, nor should they.
>>
>> There's never a necessity, but always a possibility.
>>
>> Movie: Jules et Jim
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/densitydesign/3220157963/in/set-72157612908164228/
>>
>> Shakespeare
>> http://www.understanding-shakespeare.com/
>
> Interesting, thanks for sharing.
>>
>>
>>> Or am I smoking funny bananas here??
>>
>> You are ;) but that's ok. Sometimes it might be good :)
>
> Does that mean free porn is Open Data?   Or free parking?.?  Ok, I'll go easy on the bananas now  :p
>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Karl Dubost
>> http://www.la-grange.net/karl/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss



--
-
http://zzzoot.blogspot.com/
-


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 16:47:16 -0700
From: David Eaves <[hidden email]>
To: civicaccess discuss <[hidden email]>
Subject: [CivicAccess-discuss] Civic Data challenge
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I thought this might be of interest to those interested in data and civic innovation. I'm working with Kaggle and SeeClicFix to launch a predictive data challenge using 311 data from 4 different cities.

My bigger goal is to foster efforts to figure out if city algorithms can be turned into a open commons that can help all cities - especially smaller ones or those with less resources.

http://eaves.ca/2013/09/11/announcing-the-311-data-challenge-soon-to-be-launched-on-kaggle/


David Eaves
[hidden email]
www.eaves.ca



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------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 20:14:57 -0400
From: James McKinney <[hidden email]>
To: civicaccess discuss <civicacc

--

Tracey P. Lauriault

http://traceyplauriault.wordpress.com/2013/07/23/moving-to-ireland/

https://gcrc.carleton.ca/confluence/display/GCRCWEB/Lauriault

http://datalibre.ca/

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

[Peder Jakobsen]

Does this mean that Hollywood movies are data, or contain data that can potentially be extracted.  In the interest  of precision (and not confusing the general public), this distinction seems crucial. 

https://www.google.ca/search?q=data+definition

Peder 

On 2013-09-13, at 2:25 AM, "Tracey P. Lauriault" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Books are in and of themselves data for librarians,

also English majors, and in the lab at Carleton, GCRC books get geotranscribed into maps.  movies are also data and we have a research stream called cinematographic research and geomarratives.

Books also contain qualitative data.

On Friday, September 13, 2013, wrote:

Send CivicAccess-discuss mailing list submissions to
        [hidden email]

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
        http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
        [hidden email]

You can reach the person managing the list at
        [hidden email]

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of CivicAccess-discuss digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Public domain and wikisource (Peder Jakobsen)
   2. Re: Public domain and wikisource (Karl Dubost)
   3. Re: Public domain and wikisource (Karl Dubost)
   4. Re: Public domain and wikisource (Peder Jakobsen)
   5. Re: Public domain and wikisource (Glen Newton)
   6. Civic Data challenge (David Eaves)
   7. Re: Civic Data challenge (James McKinney)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 18:54:03 -0400
From: Peder Jakobsen <[hidden email]>
To: civicaccess discuss <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Public domain and wikisource
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

Are works of fiction Open Data?  I never read a book that was data, except the Yellow Pages.   Yes, many books reference data, but books are not data, meaning they cannot be turned into something new or more useful by machines, nor should they.   (Unless you are making a corpus for translation I suppose).

Or am I smoking funny bananas here??

Peder

On 2013-09-12, at 4:52 PM, Robert Tiessen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Michael Geist had two or three blog posts about a Canadian site that posted music scores that were in the public domain.  Despite the fact that what the site did was completely legal in Canada (life of the author plus 50 years), the site was eventually shut down.  The site couldn't afford to deal with harassing copyright infringement lawsuits from European music publishers.
>
> While I would like to see Canada develop its own website of books in the public domain, there are risks to a prominent site.
>
> Here is link to one of the blog posts:
>
> http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/5754/125/
>
> Robert Tiessen
> Librarian on a Research Leave
>
> University of Calgary Library
> [hidden email]
> 403.220.6043
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Karl Dubost
> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 6:40 AM
> To: civicaccess discuss
> Subject: [CivicAccess-discuss] Public domain and wikisource
>
> Hi,
>
> IANAL (I Am Not A Lawyer)
>
> Some authors I love are in the public domain in Canada (50 years after the death). Two examples are Camus and Bachelard. They are authors from France.
>
> Camus works are easily accessible at a Quebec university site http://classiques.uqac.ca/classiques/camus_albert/camus_albert.html
>
> Someone like Bachelard is impossible to find. So I was musing on helping to get it on wikisource. BUT wikisource has chosen to put a restriction on the author nationality for applying the public domain.
>
>> In Aide:Droit d'auteur - Wikisource
>> At https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Aide:Droit_d%E2%80%99auteur
>>
>> Domaine public : sont admissibles tous les textes qui ne sont plus
>> sous droit d'auteur en droit fran?ais ou qui ne sont plus sous droit
>> dans leur pays d'origine pour les auteurs francophones non fran?ais.
>
> I was wondering about two things then:
>
> 1. Is the public domain in a specific country constrained by the nationality of the author?
> 2. Should we have a wikisource-like in Canada, hosted in Canada, where authors dead more than 50 years ago could be easily accessible?
>
>
>
>
> --
> Karl Dubost
> http://www.la-grange.net/karl/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 18:58:21 -0400
From: Karl Dubost <[hidden email]>
To: civicaccess discuss <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Public domain and wikisource
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Robert Tiessen [2013-09-12T16:52]:
> The site couldn't afford to deal with harassing copyright infringement lawsuits from European music publishers.

UQAC had issues with Gallimard related to Camus. The agreement which has been found was to block based on IP location. (which can be easily bypass with a proxy, but that's another story).



--
Karl Dubost
http://www.la-grange.net/karl/

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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 19:05:17 -0400
From: Karl Dubost <[hidden email]>
To: civicaccess discuss <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Public domain and wikisource
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Peder Jakobsen [2013-09-12T18:54]:
> Are works of fiction Open Data?

Well. Yes they contain data that can be interpreted. There are a lot of things into them.
But if your comment is "Is it out of topic for this list?" Slightly. I'm abusing the fact that this community might have knowledge about it ;)


> but books are not data, meaning they cannot be turned into something new or more useful by machines, nor should they.

There's never a necessity, but always a possibility.

Movie: Jules et Jim
http://www.flickr.com/photos/densitydesign/3220157963/in/set-72157612908164228/

Shakespeare
http://www.understanding-shakespeare.com/


> Or am I smoking funny bananas here??

You are ;) but that's ok. Sometimes it might be good :)


--
Karl Dubost
http://www.la-grange.net/karl/

-------------- next part --------------
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Type: application/pgp-signature
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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 19:13:41 -0400
From: Peder Jakobsen <[hidden email]>
To: civicaccess discuss <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Public domain and wikisource
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252



On 2013-09-12, at 7:05 PM, Karl Dubost <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Peder Jakobsen [2013-09-12T18:54]:
>> Are works of fiction Open Data?
>
> Well. Yes they contain data that can be interpreted. There are a lot of things into them.
> But if your comment is "Is it out of topic for this list?" Slightly. I'm abusing the fact that this community might have knowledge about it ;)
>
>
>> but books are not data, meaning they cannot be turned into something new or more useful by machines, nor should they.
>
> There's never a necessity, but always a possibility.
>
> Movie: Jules et Jim
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/densitydesign/3220157963/in/set-72157612908164228/
>
> Shakespeare
> http://www.understanding-shakespeare.com/

Interesting, thanks for sharing.
>
>
>> Or am I smoking funny bananas here??
>
> You are ;) but that's ok. Sometimes it might be good :)

Does that mean free porn is Open Data?   Or free parking?.?  Ok, I'll go easy on the bananas now  :p

>
>
> --
> Karl Dubost
> http://www.la-grange.net/karl/
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 19:42:57 -0400
From: Glen Newton <[hidden email]>
To: civicaccess discuss <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Public domain and wikisource
Message-ID:
        <CANL2-4PQfR=nzR1W4B0iwo-1BA8niAOHfVB3=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Books are text. Text is data.

I do research in natural language processing and treat all text
(including books) as data.
Here is an example of a research competition involving 50,000
digitized (out-of-copyright) books, ~70GB of text:
http://www.inex.otago.ac.nz/tracks/books/books.asp

My previous employment at the NRC involved working with the text of
~5.7 million _in_copyright_ scientific research articles, ~700GB of
text.

-Glen

On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 7:13 PM, Peder Jakobsen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> On 2013-09-12, at 7:05 PM, Karl Dubost <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Peder Jakobsen [2013-09-12T18:54]:
>>> Are works of fiction Open Data?
>>
>> Well. Yes they contain data that can be interpreted. There are a lot of things into them.
>> But if your comment is "Is it out of topic for this list?" Slightly. I'm abusing the fact that this community might have knowledge about it ;)
>>
>>
>>> but books are not data, meaning they cannot be turned into something new or more useful by machines, nor should they.
>>
>> There's never a necessity, but always a possibility.
>>
>> Movie: Jules et Jim
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/densitydesign/3220157963/in/set-72157612908164228/
>>
>> Shakespeare
>> http://www.understanding-shakespeare.com/
>
> Interesting, thanks for sharing.
>>
>>
>>> Or am I smoking funny bananas here??
>>
>> You are ;) but that's ok. Sometimes it might be good :)
>
> Does that mean free porn is Open Data?   Or free parking?.?  Ok, I'll go easy on the bananas now  :p
>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Karl Dubost
>> http://www.la-grange.net/karl/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss



--
-
http://zzzoot.blogspot.com/
-


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 16:47:16 -0700
From: David Eaves <[hidden email]>
To: civicaccess discuss <[hidden email]>
Subject: [CivicAccess-discuss] Civic Data challenge
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I thought this might be of interest to those interested in data and civic innovation. I'm working with Kaggle and SeeClicFix to launch a predictive data challenge using 311 data from 4 different cities.

My bigger goal is to foster efforts to figure out if city algorithms can be turned into a open commons that can help all cities - especially smaller ones or those with less resources.

http://eaves.ca/2013/09/11/announcing-the-311-data-challenge-soon-to-be-launched-on-kaggle/


David Eaves
[hidden email]
www.eaves.ca



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------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 20:14:57 -0400
From: James McKinney <[hidden email]>
To: civicaccess discuss <civicacc

--

Tracey P. Lauriault

http://traceyplauriault.wordpress.com/2013/07/23/moving-to-ireland/

https://gcrc.carleton.ca/confluence/display/GCRCWEB/Lauriault

http://datalibre.ca/

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

_______________________________________________
CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss

[Immanuel Giulea]

Are we talking about the book itself (physical) or the contents inside the cover (or digital file) ?

For movies I think it's different. Movies are audiovisual. You already movies formats. You have free/open formats, free/open software to make the movie. And even scripts can be made public domain under CC or other license.

Great discussion tho.

My #2cent

Immanuel

On 2013-09-13 7:25 AM, "Peder Jakobsen" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Does this mean that Hollywood movies are data, or contain data that can potentially be extracted.  In the interest  of precision (and not confusing the general public), this distinction seems crucial. 

https://www.google.ca/search?q=data+definition

Peder 

On 2013-09-13, at 2:25 AM, "Tracey P. Lauriault" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Books are in and of themselves data for librarians,

also English majors, and in the lab at Carleton, GCRC books get geotranscribed into maps.  movies are also data and we have a research stream called cinematographic research and geomarratives.

Books also contain qualitative data.

On Friday, September 13, 2013, wrote:

Send CivicAccess-discuss mailing list submissions to
        [hidden email]

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
        http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
        [hidden email]

You can reach the person managing the list at
        [hidden email]

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of CivicAccess-discuss digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Public domain and wikisource (Peder Jakobsen)
   2. Re: Public domain and wikisource (Karl Dubost)
   3. Re: Public domain and wikisource (Karl Dubost)
   4. Re: Public domain and wikisource (Peder Jakobsen)
   5. Re: Public domain and wikisource (Glen Newton)
   6. Civic Data challenge (David Eaves)
   7. Re: Civic Data challenge (James McKinney)


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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 18:54:03 -0400
From: Peder Jakobsen <[hidden email]>
To: civicaccess discuss <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Public domain and wikisource
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

Are works of fiction Open Data?  I never read a book that was data, except the Yellow Pages.   Yes, many books reference data, but books are not data, meaning they cannot be turned into something new or more useful by machines, nor should they.   (Unless you are making a corpus for translation I suppose).

Or am I smoking funny bananas here??

Peder

On 2013-09-12, at 4:52 PM, Robert Tiessen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Michael Geist had two or three blog posts about a Canadian site that posted music scores that were in the public domain.  Despite the fact that what the site did was completely legal in Canada (life of the author plus 50 years), the site was eventually shut down.  The site couldn't afford to deal with harassing copyright infringement lawsuits from European music publishers.
>
> While I would like to see Canada develop its own website of books in the public domain, there are risks to a prominent site.
>
> Here is link to one of the blog posts:
>
> http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/5754/125/
>
> Robert Tiessen
> Librarian on a Research Leave
>
> University of Calgary Library
> [hidden email]
> <a href="tel:[phone]" value="[phone]" target="_blank">403.220.6043
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Karl Dubost
> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 6:40 AM
> To: civicaccess discuss
> Subject: [CivicAccess-discuss] Public domain and wikisource
>
> Hi,
>
> IANAL (I Am Not A Lawyer)
>
> Some authors I love are in the public domain in Canada (50 years after the death). Two examples are Camus and Bachelard. They are authors from France.
>
> Camus works are easily accessible at a Quebec university site http://classiques.uqac.ca/classiques/camus_albert/camus_albert.html
>
> Someone like Bachelard is impossible to find. So I was musing on helping to get it on wikisource. BUT wikisource has chosen to put a restriction on the author nationality for applying the public domain.
>
>> In Aide:Droit d'auteur - Wikisource
>> At https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Aide:Droit_d%E2%80%99auteur
>>
>> Domaine public : sont admissibles tous les textes qui ne sont plus
>> sous droit d'auteur en droit fran?ais ou qui ne sont plus sous droit
>> dans leur pays d'origine pour les auteurs francophones non fran?ais.
>
> I was wondering about two things then:
>
> 1. Is the public domain in a specific country constrained by the nationality of the author?
> 2. Should we have a wikisource-like in Canada, hosted in Canada, where authors dead more than 50 years ago could be easily accessible?
>
>
>
>
> --
> Karl Dubost
> http://www.la-grange.net/karl/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss



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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 18:58:21 -0400
From: Karl Dubost <[hidden email]>
To: civicaccess discuss <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Public domain and wikisource
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Robert Tiessen [2013-09-12T16:52]:
> The site couldn't afford to deal with harassing copyright infringement lawsuits from European music publishers.

UQAC had issues with Gallimard related to Camus. The agreement which has been found was to block based on IP location. (which can be easily bypass with a proxy, but that's another story).



--
Karl Dubost
http://www.la-grange.net/karl/

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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 19:05:17 -0400
From: Karl Dubost <[hidden email]>
To: civicaccess discuss <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Public domain and wikisource
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Peder Jakobsen [2013-09-12T18:54]:
> Are works of fiction Open Data?

Well. Yes they contain data that can be interpreted. There are a lot of things into them.
But if your comment is "Is it out of topic for this list?" Slightly. I'm abusing the fact that this community might have knowledge about it ;)


> but books are not data, meaning they cannot be turned into something new or more useful by machines, nor should they.

There's never a necessity, but always a possibility.

Movie: Jules et Jim
http://www.flickr.com/photos/densitydesign/3220157963/in/set-72157612908164228/

Shakespeare
http://www.understanding-shakespeare.com/


> Or am I smoking funny bananas here??

You are ;) but that's ok. Sometimes it might be good :)


--
Karl Dubost
http://www.la-grange.net/karl/

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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 19:13:41 -0400
From: Peder Jakobsen <[hidden email]>
To: civicaccess discuss <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Public domain and wikisource
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252



On 2013-09-12, at 7:05 PM, Karl Dubost <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Peder Jakobsen [2013-09-12T18:54]:
>> Are works of fiction Open Data?
>
> Well. Yes they contain data that can be interpreted. There are a lot of things into them.
> But if your comment is "Is it out of topic for this list?" Slightly. I'm abusing the fact that this community might have knowledge about it ;)
>
>
>> but books are not data, meaning they cannot be turned into something new or more useful by machines, nor should they.
>
> There's never a necessity, but always a possibility.
>
> Movie: Jules et Jim
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/densitydesign/3220157963/in/set-72157612908164228/
>
> Shakespeare
> http://www.understanding-shakespeare.com/

Interesting, thanks for sharing.
>
>
>> Or am I smoking funny bananas here??
>
> You are ;) but that's ok. Sometimes it might be good :)

Does that mean free porn is Open Data?   Or free parking?.?  Ok, I'll go easy on the bananas now  :p

>
>
> --
> Karl Dubost
> http://www.la-grange.net/karl/
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 19:42:57 -0400
From: Glen Newton <[hidden email]>
To: civicaccess discuss <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [CivicAccess-discuss] Public domain and wikisource
Message-ID:
        <CANL2-4PQfR=nzR1W4B0iwo-1BA8niAOHfVB3=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Books are text. Text is data.

I do research in natural language processing and treat all text
(including books) as data.
Here is an example of a research competition involving 50,000
digitized (out-of-copyright) books, ~70GB of text:
http://www.inex.otago.ac.nz/tracks/books/books.asp

My previous employment at the NRC involved working with the text of
~5.7 million _in_copyright_ scientific research articles, ~700GB of
text.

-Glen

On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 7:13 PM, Peder Jakobsen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> On 2013-09-12, at 7:05 PM, Karl Dubost <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Peder Jakobsen [2013-09-12T18:54]:
>>> Are works of fiction Open Data?
>>
>> Well. Yes they contain data that can be interpreted. There are a lot of things into them.
>> But if your comment is "Is it out of topic for this list?" Slightly. I'm abusing the fact that this community might have knowledge about it ;)
>>
>>
>>> but books are not data, meaning they cannot be turned into something new or more useful by machines, nor should they.
>>
>> There's never a necessity, but always a possibility.
>>
>> Movie: Jules et Jim
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/densitydesign/3220157963/in/set-72157612908164228/
>>
>> Shakespeare
>> http://www.understanding-shakespeare.com/
>
> Interesting, thanks for sharing.
>>
>>
>>> Or am I smoking funny bananas here??
>>
>> You are ;) but that's ok. Sometimes it might be good :)
>
> Does that mean free porn is Open Data?   Or free parking?.?  Ok, I'll go easy on the bananas now  :p
>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Karl Dubost
>> http://www.la-grange.net/karl/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss
>
> _______________________________________________
> CivicAccess-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.pwd.ca/mailman/listinfo/civicaccess-discuss



--
-
http://zzzoot.blogspot.com/
-


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 16:47:16 -0700
From: David Eaves <[hidden email]>
To: civicaccess discuss <[hidden email]>
Subject: [CivicAccess-discuss] Civic Data challenge
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I thought this might be of interest to those interested in data and civic innovation. I'm working with Kaggle and SeeClicFix to launch a predictive data challenge using 311 data from 4 different cities.

My bigger goal is to foster efforts to figure out if city algorithms can be turned into a open commons that can help all cities - especially smaller ones or those with less resources.

http://eaves.ca/2013/09/11/announcing-the-311-data-challenge-soon-to-be-launched-on-kaggle/


David Eaves
[hidden email]
www.eaves.ca



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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 20:14:57 -0400
From: James McKinney <[hidden email]>
To: civicaccess discuss <civicacc

--

Tracey P. Lauriault

http://traceyplauriault.wordpress.com/2013/07/23/moving-to-ireland/

https://gcrc.carleton.ca/confluence/display/GCRCWEB/Lauriault

http://datalibre.ca/

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[Peder Jakobsen]

On 2013-09-13, at 7:30 AM, Immanuel Giulea <[hidden email]> wrote:

Are we talking about the book itself (physical) or the contents inside the cover (or digital file) ?

Glad you brought this up, because this is also a bit confounding.  It seems  irrelevant if something is in digital form or not. Punchcards are data, as is the Yellow Pages.   Stuff  that become digitized is perhaps too quick to be judged data simply because it is now 1s and 0s.   It may make it easier to find data in this stuff, but by any *standard* definition, it does not make it data. As an Open Data newbie I feel the need to get this definition straight in my head.  

Does anyone ever  use the term Open Information?  

Broadening the definition of data, I'm all for that, but it will be have to be  convincing and precise to overcome the inevitable and never ending refrain from I.T.  types: 

1. What's wrong with our current definition of data?

2. Well, why not just use the word information then?

Perhaps the redefinition lies in the fact that Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning has now made unstructured information into data (via classificaton algorithms etc.)?  

Peder 

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[Karl Dubost]

Peder Jakobsen [2013-09-13T08:08]:
> 1. What's wrong with our current definition of data?
> 2. Well, why not just use the word information then?


Information becomes data when it is used for analysis.
It's the intent which makes data, not the nature.

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Karl Dubost
http://www.la-grange.net/karl/


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[Tracey P. Lauriault]

The answer to Peder and Immanuel is contingent on who is studying what, and the format of the object, whether paper or film, or csv and dig. audio mp3 is irrelevant.

On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 1:08 PM, Peder Jakobsen <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 2013-09-13, at 7:30 AM, Immanuel Giulea <[hidden email]> wrote:

Are we talking about the book itself (physical) or the contents inside the cover (or digital file) ?

Glad you brought this up, because this is also a bit confounding.  It seems  irrelevant if something is in digital form or not. Punchcards are data, as is the Yellow Pages.   Stuff  that become digitized is perhaps too quick to be judged data simply because it is now 1s and 0s.   It may make it easier to find data in this stuff, but by any *standard* definition, it does not make it data. As an Open Data newbie I feel the need to get this definition straight in my head.  

Does anyone ever  use the term Open Information?  

Broadening the definition of data, I'm all for that, but it will be have to be  convincing and precise to overcome the inevitable and never ending refrain from I.T.  types: 

1. What's wrong with our current definition of data?

2. Well, why not just use the word information then?

Perhaps the redefinition lies in the fact that Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning has now made unstructured information into data (via classificaton algorithms etc.)?  

Peder 

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Tracey P. Lauriault

http://traceyplauriault.wordpress.com/2013/07/23/moving-to-ireland/

https://gcrc.carleton.ca/confluence/display/GCRCWEB/Lauriault

http://datalibre.ca/

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[Peder Jakobsen]

On 2013-09-13, at 9:27 AM, Karl Dubost <[hidden email]> wrote:

Information becomes data when it is used for analysis.
It's the intent which makes data, not the nature.

A+  Thanks, that is an excellent answer. 

Peder 

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[Glen Newton]

If it is digital, it is data. Maybe not to you, but to someone. Maybe
not today, but someday.
Most computer scientists view the digital world in this fashion.

-Glen

On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Peder Jakobsen <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 2013-09-13, at 9:27 AM, Karl Dubost <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Information becomes data when it is used for analysis.
> It's the intent which makes data, not the nature.
>
>
>
> A+  Thanks, that is an excellent answer.
>
> Peder
>
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[Herb Lainchbury]

The term "open information" is used by the Government of British Columbia to describe information that is made availabe to the public but is not considered open data (usually as the result of a Freedom of Information request).  See: http://www.openinfo.gov.bc.ca/

H

On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 5:08 AM, Peder Jakobsen <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 2013-09-13, at 7:30 AM, Immanuel Giulea <[hidden email]> wrote:

Are we talking about the book itself (physical) or the contents inside the cover (or digital file) ?

Glad you brought this up, because this is also a bit confounding.  It seems  irrelevant if something is in digital form or not. Punchcards are data, as is the Yellow Pages.   Stuff  that become digitized is perhaps too quick to be judged data simply because it is now 1s and 0s.   It may make it easier to find data in this stuff, but by any *standard* definition, it does not make it data. As an Open Data newbie I feel the need to get this definition straight in my head.  

Does anyone ever  use the term Open Information?  

Broadening the definition of data, I'm all for that, but it will be have to be  convincing and precise to overcome the inevitable and never ending refrain from I.T.  types: 

1. What's wrong with our current definition of data?

2. Well, why not just use the word information then?

Perhaps the redefinition lies in the fact that Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning has now made unstructured information into data (via classificaton algorithms etc.)?  

Peder 

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Herb Lainchbury, CEO, Dynamic Solutions Inc.

250.704.6154

http://www.dynamic-solutions.com

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[Stéphane Couture]

2013/9/13 Karl Dubost <[hidden email]>

Information becomes data when it is used for analysis.
It's the intent which makes data, not the nature.

If I may react to this... I feel it should be the other around.

Information is the sense we make from data, what is significant out of the noise. Data is the material, information is what we retrieve from the data.

Indeed, we can not stock "information", we only stock data. Information is what we extract from data to make sense of it. So for the book, the letters are datas, and the story is the information.

At least, this is how I taught it to my students,

Best,

Stéphane

 

--
Karl Dubost
http://www.la-grange.net/karl/

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[Karl Dubost]

Stéphane Couture [2013-09-13T18:11]:
> Information is the sense we make from data,

usage != meaning



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Karl Dubost
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